[Wafflepudding]

Alright, since it sprung up during the penal system discussion, and while I don't necesarily agree with Jen's take on it, it certainly IS a serious issue worthy of discussion.

For the record, I wouldn't put the government running drugs into the country past them, they have proven to have no ethical qualms with far more objectionable actions, and have a complete disregard for the law and welfare of Joe America (even more so Juan America or Leroy America). Besides this is not without precedent and everyone familiar with the story of the Iran-Contra scandal knows this for a fact.

That aside, I would like some proof that this is still going on RIGHT NOW.

However even this is not the idea that I had in mind. The poll speaks for itself. It would also be nice to have some testimonials and experience. Really, no shame, and to show good faith, I'll get the ball rolling.

I was a regular marijuana user for three years. Now I look back on it with mixed feelings, I never stole or used harder drugs, or became stupid or anything the conservative propaganda machine spews out, but I do feel that I wasted time that would have been better spent reading, studying or working. It's not like it wouldn't be the same with alcohol. I wouldn't go back to it now, but I do think many of the problems that come along with drug use actually stem from their illegal status and the way society rejects recreational drug users.

I swear this is gonna come back to bite me in the ass but nevertheless, there it is.

[Thelonious]

Waffle,
I don't see how this could bite you on the ass. Closed-minded morons will rant and rave no matter what you do, say, don't do, or don't say.

One point which I feel is critical to this debate, and which I never see mentioned in the drug controversy is....

Just how does a 'gateway' drug work? What constitutes a 'gateway' drug? Shouldn't we get precise sceintific info on which drugs really lead to Crack and Heroin addiction?

I think that when you look at it, you'll find that the concept of 'gateway' drug is just a bunch of nonsense, and was invented to justify the continued prohibition of a relatively harmless weed. The logic behind the 'gateway' drug horror story is that most people who die of Crystal Meth addiction smoked marijuanna first. By the same logic Tobaco, Coffee, a drivers liscense, or even freshman year in high school is a 'gateway' drug.

The whole 'war on drugs' fiasko has been a complete disaster, and though I can't prove it, it has probably been counterproductive... We need a new strategy on drugs, and harm reduction is a big part of that. (all of this really ties into the question about the HUMUNGOUS prison population in the US, which is in part caused by our ridiculous insistence on repression as the only answer to a problem that we have very poorly defined)

[Jennifer_SFBA]

Wp, while there is no moment by moment or instant replay of government drug trafficing operations, there are the two links below I will post for you that I found in a quick serch on the internet that are more recent, 2000. There is the FACT that goverment people who Bo Gritz pointed out in his letter never were prosecuted for ILLEGAL and KNOWN GOVERNMENT drugs and arms running and that thery are still doing VERY WELL indeed with even HIGHER positions now than they held at the time of Bo Gritz' writing.

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/bushcheney.html

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/bush-cheney-drugs.html

The poll does not allow for controlled use of hard drugs, drugs exclusive of marijuana and those that are psychodelic, for use in nice, comfortable, government licensed, secure facilities with a treatment option. Profit has to be taken out of the drug market for any drug program to work.

[Wafflepudding]

I didn't think of that one, but frankly it sounds a bit like supporting the status quo in the sense that schedule 3 and 4 drugs are already used under the counter when prescribed and in hospitals, so it's really a matter of what's OTC and what's not. I'm looking into the drugs connection you claim exists right now.

[Jennifer_SFBA]

Wp, similar to the opium dens at the turn of the 20TH century, but regulated and with a treatment option and social services support. There are many many pictures of them at Google images and the one on the top, far right in the link below is of one that was in San Francisco. There were beds and opium pipes and there was no regulation. People smoked opium and slept, woke up and smoked opium and slept. Some people didn't eat, got down to skin and bones and died in those places.

http://images.google.com/images?q=opium+dens&gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20

[Wafflepudding]

Would this apply to all drugs equally? I disagree with blanket policies.

IMO marijuana and weak hallucinogenic drugs should be regulated in the same sense as alcohol is. No special sites, just, keep them off public property, no DUI, you have to be over 21, etc.

Perhaps harder drugs could work under the den scheme you propose. At the very least it would reduce violent crime.