[Jennifer_SFBA]

It's true!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a30rJQbDDno

[Jumpin Jupiter]

No arguement here, he proves his incompetency too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhbPVrb5KM&mode=related&search=

[Jumpin Jupiter]

Carter agrees as well.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273937,00.html

[MAGI]

Carter agrees as well.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273937,00.html

President Carter: a man of honor and bravery who is, truthfull, sincere and works daily for all humanity.

:thumbup:

Thanks J J.

[Wafflepudding]

This is sooo much a bandwagon effect.

Don't take me wrong, I fully agree, but where the hell where they before Iraq? before the election? before the vast majority of America thought Bush was incompetent as well? Where were they when most of us were out there campaigning against Bush? denouncing his incompetency and his hidden agenda?

Pretty safe to do it when over 60% of the country agrees with you. It's dissenting when everyone else is consenting to evil that is admirable.

MAGI: I'm fond of Jimmy Carter as well, it's a shame his administration didn't have the success it deserved.

[MAGI]

WP,
Yes, we agree on this, for sure.
President Carter did so much for our environment, with laws to clean up pollution.
Reagan and Gingrich, most notably, decimated those laws for Corporate America with their mantra of "get Big Gov't out " of our lives.
A fine example of people not seeking the truth!


Carter worked diligently for Peace throughout the world as he still is.
Reagan and "the boys" manipulated willing Iran, who kept the hostages which cost Carter's re-election! and.......Reagan's the hero? What a sham!
I'm still waiting for the Iran/Contra truth!
If history will be truthful, former President Carter will be the hero. Not Reagan!

I know you are knowlegable about this, WP; unfortunately too many are not!
Why, do you suppose, Clinton never recognised Carter when he was president?
Didn't call upon Carter to engage in peace talks?
Even stranger, Clinton teams with George H. Bush, instead? :eek:

and........Carter really didn't appear fond of Clinton, esp. during Clinton's terms in Presidency?

:confused:

[NeoCon Newbie]

WP,
Yes, we agree on this, for sure.
President Carter did so much for our environment, with laws to clean up pollution.
Reagan and Gingrich, most notably, decimated those laws for Corporate America with their mantra of "get Big Gov't out " of our lives.
A fine example of people not seeking the truth!


Carter worked diligently for Peace throughout the world as he still is.
Reagan and "the boys" manipulated willing Iran, who kept the hostages which cost Carter's re-election! and.......Reagan's the hero? What a sham!
I'm still waiting for the Iran/Contra truth!
If history will be truthful, former President Carter will be the hero. Not Reagan!

I know you are knowlegable about this, WP; unfortunately too many are not!
Why, do you suppose, Clinton never recognised Carter when he was president?
Didn't call upon Carter to engage in peace talks?
Even stranger, Clinton teams with George H. Bush, instead? :eek:

and........Carter really didn't appear fond of Clinton, esp. during Clinton's terms in Presidency?

:confused:
Bullshit Carter is no hero he almost cost us the cold war it took reagan to fix what carter screwed up and also reagan won the war with out losing a solider. Carter is a dumbass he was trying to protect the environment more then his own people he wasn't spending any money on the military when we had the soviets threating to nuke us. Regan was a great a president to bad Magi cant see past the environment.

[Jumpin Jupiter]

This is sooo much a bandwagon effect.

Don't take me wrong, I fully agree, but where the hell where they before Iraq? before the election? before the vast majority of America thought Bush was incompetent as well? Where were they when most of us were out there campaigning against Bush? denouncing his incompetency and his hidden agenda?

Pretty safe to do it when over 60% of the country agrees with you. It's dissenting when everyone else is consenting to evil that is admirable.

MAGI: I'm fond of Jimmy Carter as well, it's a shame his administration didn't have the success it deserved.


Uhhhh, Who was running against Bush?

Yeah, Lesser of the two evils won that election.

Why cant the Dems or other party get someone in there that will actually do what they say? Repubs wont win the next election, but who else is there besides career politicians that go with the status quo? I am not meaning to change the thread here but damn, look who he was running against in the last election, even the one before. Give us some hope and get someone in there that is actually a leader!

We cant even get paper ballots any more. Is ALL hope lost?

[Wafflepudding]

So Reagan "won" the cold war spending billions of taxpayer dollars on weapons that never were used?

Buying stuff you don't need and never used, is wastefull, not wise. If Reagan hadn't spent a dime, the Soviet Union would still have imploded due to Perestroika and Glassnost. It would have fallen under its own weight, like every economist, and even conservative predicted when it started.

[MAGI]

Will we ever find out about Reagan/Bush/Iran/Israel/CIA/Contra/and how it all relates to what's happening in the Middle East now?

For a place to begin:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr/h920205-october-clips.htm

[Jumpin Jupiter]

Will we ever find out about Reagan/Bush/Iran/Israel/CIA/Contra/and how it all relates to what's happening in the Middle East now?

url]

THAT WOULD TAKE FOREVER TO FIGURE ALL THAT OUT !

[Jennifer_SFBA]

Neo-Con Newbie, did you read the OFFICIAL "Congressional Record" report link MAJI posted about Reagan who made an armaments agreement deal with Iran IF Iran would agree NOT to release American citizens being held by Iran until AFTER the election? That's the official Congressional Record investigative testimony given under oath saying that. What do you think of Reagan supplying "the enemy" arms, causing American citizens to be held longer in captivity because of that arms for hostages deal and trading arms to "the enemy" in exchange for American hostages who are American citizens all to help Reagan's chances of being elected?

As far as the environment, if the environment goes so does the people and business and culture. Keeping the environment healthy is VERY important for ALL life that includes people.

[Jennifer_SFBA]

Neo-Con Newbie, the article below is an example that would cause tourism business to lose $150 Million dollars EVERY YEAR. There are some border patrol agents, sensors and cameras being used now to control illegal border crossings , but not enough of them to stop the crossings. The government could add enough of all that to do it. There are American citizens who have volunteered to be deputized to do patrol work FOR FREE, but the federal government has refused to allow them to be deputized. In the Old West, sheriffs deputies were often unpaid volunteers.

Neo-conservatives have given Homeland Security the authority to waive, at will, environmental regulations, and Secretary Michael Chertoff has already used that authority in other states to violate environmental regulations.



Immigration fence seen as dead end for wildlife

Activists fear big cats, tortoises will be cut off from water at Rio Grande

Eric Gay / AP

Updated: 5:35 p.m. PT May 21, 2007

ALAMO, Texas - Nancy Brown drives the government truck slowly past mossy ponds, thick shrouds of beard-like Spanish moss and majestic ebony trees, gleefully identifying the song of the kiskadee and the gurgling call of the chachalaca.

As the truck rounds a bend near the greenish-brown Rio Grande, a bobcat scampers ahead, disappearing into the lush subtropical foliage. Lizards dart about. A tortoise lazes in the sun. Somewhere in the forest, well-camouflaged by evolution, are ocelots and jaguarundi, both of them endangered species of cats.

These are some of the natural wonders in the Rio Grande Valley that Brown and other wildlife enthusiasts fear could be spoiled by the fences and adjacent roads the U.S. government plans to erect along the Mexican border to keep out illegal immigrants and smugglers.

Environmentalists have spent decades acquiring and preserving 90,000 riverfront acres of Texas scrub and forest and protecting the area's wildlife. Now they fear the hundreds of miles of border fences will undo their work and kill some land animals by cutting them off from the Rio Grande, the only source of fresh water.

A fence could also prevent the ocelots and other animals from swimming across the water to mate with partners on the other side.

Tourists bring $150 million a year

"If you have a fence that runs several miles long, if you are a tortoise or any animal that can't fly over or go through it, then you have a pretty long distance that you have to go to get water," said Brown, an outreach manager at the Santa Ana National Wildlife Refuge, 225 miles south of San Antonio. Also, "any destruction of any brush is very damaging."

In addition, some worry that the barrier — described in some plans as triple-layer metal fencing — will damage the tourism industry along the Rio Grande.

The wild cats, reptiles and at least 500 species of birds attract visitors from around the world who bring the impoverished region $150 million a year. Depending on how far inland the fence is built, it could create a no man's land north of the river, hurting tourism.

While the Department of Homeland Security said it has not made any final decisions on where the fence will go, meetings this week with the Border Patrol have wildlife officials convinced that some of the 70 miles planned for the Rio Grande Valley will be erected on the string of wildlife refuges along the border.

Power to waive regulations

Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said environmental concerns will be taken into account in the final decisions. But Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has used his authority to waive environmental regulations for security reasons in other states, and Knocke said he would do so in the Rio Grande Valley if necessary.

"We do have to be mindful of the fact that we are remedying a problem that has been more than two decades in the making," he said.

The refuges show signs of immigrant activity — food wrappers and water jugs, discarded wet clothing, the plastic bags used to carry a change of clothing across the river. Similar evidence is found up and down the river, despite the presence of Border Patrol agents and the sensors and cameras that make up the current "virtual" fence.

The fence idea "is wholly incongruous with a 30-plus year investment by the federal government, the citizens and the landowners of the Rio Grande Valley who have worked hard to protect their special land and waters," said Carter Smith of the Nature Conservancy. The organization said the government should instead use more border agents, sensors and cameras.

President Bush called for about 700 miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, and Homeland Security is committed to completing 370 miles by the end of 2008. Congress has budgeted $1.2 million for the fences.

11 ecosystems

Close to $100 million has been spent creating, restoring and maintaining the refuges, wildlife officials said.

"The bottom line is the wildlife corridor took us many years to put together," said Karen Chapman of Environmental Defense. "It represents work, hard work, by a number of federal, state and local agencies and citizens of the Valley. And when we were working to put that wildlife corridor together, nobody was doing it with the thought that someday it was going to be stuck behind a wall."

The four-county Rio Grande Valley contains 11 distinct ecosystems, Brown said.

"From a biological standpoint this area is really, really impressive," she said. "You have a coastal climate meeting a desert climate meeting the temperate and the tropical."

[Wafflepudding]

If you're talking about the minutemen and others like them Jennifer, you know they got their fair share of biggots and racists that want "wetbacks out" of the US. Considering how sensitive the situation at the border is, as much as I support the 2nd ammendment and citizen's rights, I don't think having a bunch of rednecks and yokels running around half-cocked is a good answer to the problem. Of course, I'm probably biased in this issue.

[Jennifer_SFBA]

No, I'm not talking about the Minutemen. There would be screening. Many people besides them are concerned about illegal immigration and for many many different reasons.

Lee Iacocca agrees too.

Please see Jane D'Arc's post below:

"Here's an excerpt from Lee Iacocca's new book. Keep in mind that he was close to Reagan, supported and endorsed Bush in 2000 and backed Dick DeVos' gubernatorial campaign in Michigan last year.

"Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening?
Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder.
We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over
a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't
even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. But
instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when
the politicians say, "Stay the course."

Stay the course? You've got to be kidding. This is America, not the
damned Titanic. I'll give you a sound bite: Throw the bums out!

You might think I'm getting senile, that I've gone off my rocker, and
maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this
country anymore. The President of the United States is given a free pass
to ignore the Constitution, tap our phones, and lead us to war on a pack
of lies. Congress responds to record deficits by passing a huge tax cut
for the wealthy (thanks, but I don't need it). The most famous business
leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs. While we're
fiddling in Iraq, the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know
what to do. And the press is waving pom-poms instead of asking hard
questions. That's not the promise of America my parents and yours
traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough. How about you?

I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not
outraged.. Why are we in this mess? How did we end up with this crowd in
Washington? Well, we voted for them - or at least some of us did. But
I'll tell you what we didn't do. We didn't agree to suspend the
Constitution. We didn't agree to stop asking questions or demanding
answers. Some of us are sick and tired of people who call free speech
treason. Where I come from that's a dictatorship, not a democracy."