[Wafflepudding]

I once heard that spirituality comes from your inner connection between yourself and whatever higher being you worship. This seems to be the... "default" through which most people define the concept.

I feel that this is very narrow and does not fit into many other forms of spiritual development. I'm interested in hearing other people's definition of spirituality. I have my own opinions on the subject, but truth be told it's not something that ranks high on my mental priority list.

For me, spirituality is the way in which we integrate our rational (and irrational) beliefs into the matrix through which we percieve reality. It is not so much truth as it is epistemology, not as much a goal as it is a constant process inherent to humans. I've heard many say that atheists are antispiritual people grounded solely on materialism: Nothing could be further from the truth.

In principle, spirituality transcends rationality. Rationality can be defined as the ideas we have about the world, and about reality while spirituality is the gestalt (or structure if you will) through which those ideas are integrated into our cosmology.

Personally, I do not believe that an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent entity created the universe(s). That does not make the universe any less special, or devoid my life of meaning. My life is not defined through my relationship with a higher power, or even my place in the universe, I believe universe is chaos, a chaos that tends towards homeostasis, and so my place (or anyone else's) in the greater order of things, if such a thing exists, is dynamic. Change is the universal constant, and so trying to find fixed values or a way to live, like a rock to cling to when the storms come, is a futile excercise.

For me, looking for the eternal, such as heaven, hell, or reincarnation is a way to look for comfort. Life eventually ends, and while I think I don't have an undying soul or will be rewarded or punished for my actions, my actions in the world will determine my legacy, and legacy is what I consider to be immortality. You may pass on, but the impact you made on the world while you were alive will change the world forever in unpredictable ways, as any action, no matter how small, can have unpredictable effects. Which is where karma ties in with the butterfly effect.

I've also heard that atheists worship science. I admit, I am far more impressed with Cherenkov radiation than stattuetes of saints, by particle colliders than cathedrals, by electromagnetic pulses and energy fields than people walking on water or turning it into wine. Does this mean I worship science? no, this means I'm awed by the nature of the universe itself. Science cannot create, it only helps us to gain knowledge and try to control the fundamental forces of the universe. And when I see the process of matter transmutation, whether into energy or other elemental matter, I think it's a thing of great beauty.

Is this making any sense to anyone? :p sort of nerdy?

Jane, Jennifer, I'm looking forward to your four cents on the subject.

[Jane of Arc]

WaffleTeeth ~ You are not a nerd. I think this thread is very cute. It's an introspective, soul-searching, feel-good thread.

Here's my 4 cents.

I remember past lives. I didn't always. One day in the shower I wondered why I didn't like keeping my eyes shut while I showered and I would open them as much as possible even when shampooing my hair. But this one day I was in a really good mood, my friends were hanging out waiting for me to get ready and I decided to be brave and keep my eyes closed no matter what and see what happened. So, I did. By the end of the shower I was on the shower floor shaking and crying. I got myself up and grabbed a towel and ran half-naked to my friends. I tried to explain to them what happened. They were really cool people and listened carefully without judgment. The long and the short of it is, I remembered being in a Nazi concentration camp and I died there. I was a woman and I had 2 children. We were separated when we got to Auschwitz and I never saw them again. I remembered incredible details. They were memories, like I remembered constantly picking lice out of my stumble of thinning hair. Weird stuff like that.

It wasn't my imagination. (Although, what is imagination?) I wasn't hallucinating. I was not mentally ill. I wasn't under the influence of any drug or alcohol. I remembered it. And I knew it was my memory because of the coordinating emotional responses to certian images and thoughts. It was no different than remembering last year.

I decided to "face a fear". When you face a fear, an irrational fear, you'll find it's there, obviously, due to some traumatic event. Usually, the fear is compounded by multiple, reinforcing traumatic events and become phobias or causes for deep anxiety. When you follow the 'fear trail' all sorts of things can be discovered about yourself if you go deep enough. And all sorts of problems can be solved when the fear is faced, accepted and released. And all sorts of new doors open up to your consciousness when fear isn't blocking and fouling up your experiences. I think fear is the world's greatest challenge.

I believe. I believe one day science and spirituality will merge. The spirit is physical. And the entire universe is one grand, connected grid of energy. I believe that consciousness is energy. And if consciousness can store memories in the brain, it can be remembered and recorded on another physical format or grid. For lack of a better image, I think we are all part of and connected to a giant 'brain", a giant field of consciousness.

The intrinsic nature of individual consciousness, the soul if you will, is to create. We are creators. But, creating is impossible when reacting and living in fear. Planet Earth is a school of sorts. We're here to get to the next level of consciousness. All of this vast creation, this vast intelligence around us, this vast, vibrating, expanding and contracting and ever-changing presence of energy = God. But, the word God is a limiting, overused word.

I've gone from a formal religious background to an atheist to a person who believes in the energy force of 'formalized consciousness'. When I was an atheist it didn't bother me to think that someday I would simply cease to exist. I don't need a God to feel all warm and fuzzy. But, I've realized I'm not physically or spiritually alone in the Universe. I've got a big, cosmic, loving family. :sunny:

[Jane of Arc]

Hey WafflePasta! ~

I spilled my guts ... told my dubiously and diminutively famous "Nazi past life shower story" and I get no response?

I didn't even get a dismissive, "Oh puh-leeze ... you actually believe in past lives?? Check you meds, Jane." response.

Wassup, girlfriend??? :p

[Wafflepudding]

Well I was waiting on someone else making a comment first, but, ok, sure.

I'm not gonna change my mind on my entire worldview on testimony, but when it comes to spiritual issues, right and wrong no longer apply, if you choose to believe it, it's real, so I can't dismiss it. In the case of past lives, there are already plenty of good arguments out there as to why that's hard to believe, and other explanations for what you experienced.

Personally, I've never had a moment like you describe.

[Jane of Arc]

WaffleArtichoke ~

You sound down. Not your peppy Waffle-self. You okay? I hope life is treating you well.

[Wafflepudding]

How perceptive Jane.

Personal stuff, nothing I'd share on a public forum. It shows though, I'm snappier and bitter than usual. I'll get over it, in the meantime I apologize to all who might have experienced discomfort due to that.

[Jennifer_SFBA]

Wp, if you like it, I've got Haagen-Dazs banana split ice crean I will share with you. ;)

[Jane of Arc]

Dear WaffleAppleUpsideDownCake ~

We all go through sh*t. That's part of the human condition ... until we figure out how to deal with the pain and the fear and the rejection and the lonliness and the anxiety and the betrayal and the hurt and the suffering and the self-loathing and the anger and the violence and the failures and the ridicule and the judgments and the cruelty and the trauma of living.

Will you try something?

Something very simple?

Will you try something that I've learned that really works for me?

Please allow me to try to be of some use or assistance.


The next time you have a negative feeling or thought of any kind ... focus on your stomach and your breathing. Watch your body breathe. Observe your stomach going in and out ... listen to your breath ... in and out. That's all. Focus on just your breathing for at least a minute, but more is better. If negative thoughts come into your mind while you're doing this, that's okay. Just let them be and go back to focusing on your breathing. To feel the results of this practice it takes repetition like anything else.

You have an excellent mind WaffleOkonomiyaki. It's a powerful tool. But like any power tool you need to be able to turn it off and follow the safety instructions.

Hope I didn't overstep my bounds. :sunny:

[Wafflepudding]

Thanks to both of you.

From my own experience:

*Passing judgement upon others. It's incredibly easy to go from functional, necesary judgement into an obsessive vice, especially when sorrounded by people doing the same. It's very tempting, and frequently it's what stops me from understanding others. As much as I'd like to overcome this, it's a reflex, built into me, and into most of us dare I say, from the day we are born and our own parents or peers start judging us and assigning us worth.

*Hatred/grudge. There is righteous anger, like the one you feel when you have been personally and deeply wronged, or the one caused by infamous acts of inhuman cruelty, but other than that, there is no valid reason to hate, it polluted the psyche (or if you prefer, soul).

*Excess/vice. Being self-indulgent for me has resulted more often in regret, weakness and anguish, and has never resulted in true happiness.

If acceptance, serenity and love are the nutrients, these are the poisons. It is, unfortunately, not as easy to avoid practicing these as it is to avoid chemicals.

[Jane of Arc]

Whatever you do ... don't do the breathing thing! :p Welcome back WaffleBagel! You've been missed. :sunny: (I know ... Jane loves that sunny face.)