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Michael DeM
08/01/07, 04:18 pm
I hate nuclear weapons. They're a waste of money and human effort. The U.S. and other industrialized nations have been stockpiling nuclear weapons all these years just waiting for the day when one of them goes off and causes a chain reaction of violent destruction throughout the world. They serve no other purpose except to make third world countries feel insecure and want to build nuclear weapons of their own for protection. Here is some good news coming out of Santa Barbara, CA.

http://indy.liberationmedia.com/news/2007/jul/19/education-and-nuclear-weapons-dont-mix/

Education and Nuclear Weapons Don’t Mix
Students Demand a Nuke-Free UC
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Thursday, July 19, 2007
By Will Parrish, youth empowerment director at the Santa Barbara-based Nuclear Age Peace Foundation (wagingpeace.org (http://wagingpeace.org)) and an alumnus of UC Santa Cruz.

The U.S. government’s primary nuclear warhead contractor will convene a public meeting at University of California, Santa Barbara this week. That contractor is the University of California’s Board of Regents. This week’s meeting marks its first formal public meeting at the Santa Barbara campus in more than nine years.

The Regents have managed the Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) in New Mexico and the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) since each facility’s inception in the mid 20th century. In the fiscal year 2005-06, the U.S. Department of Energy gave the University of California $2.85 billion to run the nuclear weapons programs at Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore. That’s more than the $2.8 billion the university system received from the State of California for education during the same period.

Every nuclear warhead in the U.S. arsenal was designed by a UC employee. Likewise, nearly every nuclear weapon test detonation, both above and below ground, has been conducted by UC-employed scientists from these nuclear weapons labs. Despite the ostensible end of the Cold War in 1989, the UC-managed labs have continued to experiment with upgrades to existing nuclear weapons systems. In 1996, the labs developed a new nuclear weapon.

In recent years, UC management of the nuclear weapons labs has met with strong opposition from students. The most dramatic manifestation of this took place from May 9-17, when more than 40 UC students, alumni, and faculty, acting independently of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, conducted a hunger fast under the banner of “No More Nukes in Our Name.”

After the Regents failed at their May meeting to vote on a resolution to cut ties with the weapons labs, 13 students and alumni were arrested for an act of nonviolent civil disobedience: refusing an order by a Regent to vacate the room. That same month, a survey question as part of campus-wide elections at UC Santa Cruz revealed an overwhelming majority of students oppose the UC’s involvement in nuclear weapons research and development. Among nearly 5,000 respondents, 74.5 percent responded “No” to the question, “Should the University of California, or their affiliate labs, research, design, or produce nuclear weapons?” Only 14.2 percent answered affirmatively.

The Regents justify their management of the labs on two primary grounds. The first is the UC has a constructive influence on nuclear weapons policy. They say the UC’s status as a publicly accountable institution makes it a better manager than a private corporation. However, the UC now co-manages the labs with Bechtel National, Inc., in a limited-liability, for-profit corporation. UC management of these labs provides a fig leaf of academic respectability for the ongoing development of the most destructive weapons in human history.

The University of California’s other justification is the labs are on the cutting edge of a variety of non-nuclear scientific fields, such as global climate change research and advancement of energy conservation technologies. This justification, too, collapses under scrutiny. The UC’s nuclear weapons laboratories are hugely important to the U.S. nuclear weapons complex. The labs’ executives and senior scientists exert a tremendous influence on U.S. nuclear weapons policy. And while important non-weapons research is being completed at the labs, the vast majority of research dollars at Los Alamos go toward nuclear weapon-related programs.

The Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, through its UC Nuclear Free program, empowers young people to achieve social change by providing them with the education and resources necessary to make their voices heard. UC students have already made progress in convincing the Regents to reconsider their position. Some Regents have asked the students for further dialogue on the matter. These students believe the time has come for one of the world’s best public university systems to get out of the nuclear weapons business. The Nuclear Age Peace Foundation couldn’t agree more.

As more students, faculty, and alumni join the campaign to make the UC nuclear-free, expect the idealism of youth to become the engine of change.

Wafflepudding
08/02/07, 09:46 am
Don't get me wrong, I hate the idea of a nuclear apocalypse as much as the next guy, but where would that leave us in respect to the other world powers who have nuclear arsenals?

Besides, I'd say other countries are not developing nuclear arsenals because they fear our own nukes. They are trying to get nukes because we've (so far) been able to roll over conventional militaries in weeks. Under presidents like Bush and Reagan, the main impression that we've given our rivals and potential enemies is that we're not willing to negotiate, we will not sit down and try to apply diplomacy, we'll simply roll over them with M1 tanks and bomb them back to the stone age with MOABs, JDAMs and Tomahawk missiles. And the only way they can be certain that we will not invade them and hang their dictators (or presidents, or whatever they have, legitimacy doesn't really matter to the pentagon) is if they're convinced they can hurt us as much as we can hurt them.

They of course are not able to match our defense budget, but a few billion dollars invested in nuclear weapons programs for them, mean the difference between being able to protect their own interests and have a credible response capability (Like Pakistan and Russia), or being subjected to invasions on weak (often false) pretenses (like many other countries we've invaded in the last century). They don't have to be able to match us numerically or qualitatively, they merely have to persuade the boys in charge that the costs of an invasion will far outweight the benefits, and there's no better way to put a scare on selfish assholes like Chenney, Rumsfeld and Bush than threathening to vaporize D.C. and their asses along with it.

Changing that "corrupt world policeman looking out for his own pocket" image will take decades. Development of a reliable national anti-ballistic missile defense network will also take many years and might cost more than what we're spending on nuclear weapons right now. There's no assurance that everyone will play along and disarm, quite the contrary, the world plays by realpolitik, not ideals.

The world hates us, for many reasons. For lack of a better analogy, when you're the bully in the playground, the most stupid move you could possibly think of would be to close your eyes, tie a hand behind your back and tell all those kids you've been screwing over "I'm sorry, I promise I won't punch you again". Chances are you're gonna get punched. And in this case, we can't really afford to get punched.

Nuclear weapons have often incited references to Pandora's box, and for good reason: Like it, the horror that was unleashed upon the world by opening it, cannot be pushed back into the box.

Michael DeM
08/04/07, 07:45 am
We're basically on the same page, WP. I agree that aggressive U.S. foreign policy is the main reason that other countries are trying to build up nuclear arsenals, but the fact that the U.S. holds so many weapons and has been trying to develop systems like Star Wars is only making matters worse. The more nuclear weapons there are in the world, the more likely it is that somebody is going to end up using them and/or that terrorists could get hold of them. Keep in mind that when I say "Ban nuclear weapons" I don't mean all at once. I understand that nuclear disarmament would have to be a gradual process, one that takes a certain level of trust among nations. And we certainly have to be wary of the possibility that some nations may not keep their end of the deal, hence the need for thorough weapons inspections. Changing America's image in the world will take years, indeed decades, but I'm confident that it can be done and that someday these weapons of death won't play such a pervasive role in foreign policy.

JamesP
08/08/07, 02:34 pm
There is a documentary showing on HBO this month entitled:

White Light, Black rain

It details the atomic bombing of Japan.

It is horrifying, gut-wrenching and a depiction of real, unimaginable horror, but should be mandatory viewing for all of voting age.

See it.... and consider if there could ever, under any circumstances, be a justification for the use of such a weapon against civilians.

To think that this happened only 60 years ago.... 140,000 people killed in a single event.... women, children, elderly, hospitals, orphanages, churches, schools... incinerated... while fully occupied by ordinary, defenseless people....

Terrorism?

NeoCon Newbie
08/08/07, 03:56 pm
We can thank that dumb ass liberal Truman for that if I was him I wopuld of droped the bomb where they could show the japanese how powerfull the a bomb was and they probably would of surrenderd without having to kill 140,000 people.

JamesP
08/08/07, 08:06 pm
Newbie: I fully & wholeheartedly agree. Imagine that.

-V-
08/08/07, 11:45 pm
We can thank that dumb ass liberal Truman for that if I was him I wopuld of droped the bomb where they could show the japanese how powerfull the a bomb was and they probably would of surrenderd without having to kill 140,000 people.

positive karma points for you Newbie. You're learning.

Atomic bombs, however, have no place being created, tested, or deployed by any country, for any reason. Indiscriminently Killing thousands of civilians and poisoning the earth in one blow is simply not an option. I believe the word for it is "terrorism", only it's far more "evil" than the typical terrorist act of killing a few civilians to terrorize many or flying a plane into a building.

FDRfollower
08/09/07, 03:13 am
Calling Truman a liberal is like calling GW an intellectual.

JamesP
08/09/07, 02:10 pm
I think Newbie has it right here.

Developing the bomb (before our enemies did) was a necessity.

Once developed, using it in a war against a ruthless enemy to save American lives (that would otherwise be lost in combat) is understandable in that the American leadership must, and should, be accountable to American soldiers & their families.

What is inexcusable is that the bomb was not dropped on a military target.

And, after having seen it's power, the Japanese leadership would have had the opportunity to choose to continue the war (subjecting their people to the bomb) or to accept the inevitable and surrender.

Even in the fog & passion of war, Truman had, at least, this responsibility to humanity and morality.

For those that believe in heaven & hell.... Truman occupies a prime place at the center of the flames.

NeoCon Newbie
08/09/07, 09:47 pm
We shouldn't ban nukes we still need them I think of them as an intimidation weapon not to be used but just to show n korea China etc we mean business so dont try anything stupid without nukes we couldnt of won the cold war.

-V-
08/10/07, 02:01 pm
We shouldn't ban nukes we still need them I think of them as an intimidation weapon not to be used but just to show n korea China etc we mean business so dont try anything stupid without nukes we couldnt of won the cold war.

scary weapons may help us win a cold battle but to win the war, any war, our ideas, ideals, freedoms, and democracy are, and always have been our strength. If England had "the bomb" there would still have been an American Revolution and China could never conquer the world even if Godzilla was on their side.

Likewise, "bunker busters" will never get us closer to "mission accomplished" in Iraq and "shock and awe" will never win the "war on terrorism".