[-V-]

Two liberal groups are running TV ads demanding that Tom DeLay resign as House majority leader:

Reuters 3/30/05

The ads focus on the allegations regarding DeLay's fund-raising practices and travel. DeLay has not been charged with wrongdoing.

"Tom DeLay can't wash his hands of corruption by involving Congress in one family's personal tragedy. ... But Congress can certainly wash its hands of Tom DeLay," the narrator says in one ad, referring to DeLay's efforts in the Terri Schiavo right-to-die case.

DeLay spokesman Dan Allen dismissed the ads as liberals' "latest attack on a well-organized effort to move America forward."

The second ad exhorts the congressmen to "clean up Congress — without DeLay."

The Public Campaign Action Fund paid $25,000 to run ads in the districts of three Republicans: House Ethics Committee chairman Doc Hastings of Washington, Rep. Tom Reynolds of New York and Rep. Rob Simmons of Connecticut.

The Campaign for America's Future, backed by labor, women's and civil rights groups, is spending $75,000 to run the Schiavo ad in Washington and in DeLay's Houston-area district.

[mikeike]

-V-
Thanks for the help, I know how to post now. I not sure he's a good target for us now. If they remove him would they bring in someone just as bad and maybe smarter? Give you a example when Frist leaves as majority leader in the Senate then McConnell takes over. He's more conservative, smarter and certainly more cunning.
I assure you McConnell is trouble, what McConnell wants Bush does. That's true right now the white house doesn't pay that much attention to Frist. Besides Frist does what McConnell wants.

[-V-]

I say, line 'em up and knock 'em down. It's inevitable that anyone that rised to the top of the Republican leadership has got to be their biggest ass. Therefore, it is only a matter of time before they show their ass and get it booted.

[joepol4]

hi guys:
yes delay is no hoo-ray for sure, but i also fear the gop would put someone in even worse -- as for Frist; coming from TN like i do he's just a puppet right now and he'd be better off returning to medicine (former surgeon) but he's not as bad as some others in the admin -such as mcconnell like you said mike, but theres certainly enough 'baggage' on delay to run him out of DC

[mikeike]

Right now I like having Delay to fire at.If McConnell becomes majority leader there will be few mistakes. I assure you -V-, he will be hard to deal with.Delay isn't bright but McConnell is . He will never get into that type of trouble check his record.The is a saying "It's better to deal with the devil you know, than the devil you don't know". Two men run the show Washington, Carl Rove and Mitch McConnell. I have misspelled Bradley's name, is there any way to correct that?

[Michael DeM]

Wait a second here. Did Mitch McConnell say that he was going to replace Delay as House majority leader if Delay resigns or something? McConnell's a senator. How's he going to become House majority leader? Is there something I'm missing here?

[mikeike]

Michel
Yes McConnell is in the Senate. If you get rid of Delay you might get someone like McConnell in the house to deal with. We can fire at DeLay and he is now losing his inflence in house.I hope you can understand my point.

[Michael DeM]

I understand what you're saying now, Mike; but I'll have to disagree with you and Joe on this. I think we should be able to take whoever would step up to replace Tom Delay.

[gratelady1]

I say "I like Delay where he is", and Repubs are starting to see the negative effects of having Delay in power, this re-enforces the arguement- to leave him be- Note: if the Repubs are verifing that he should go, that means we "politically" need him to stay. Dont incourage them to clean house, if thier house is dirty, no one will want to visit for fear of getting contaminated- thus Delay becomes in-effective.

[Michael DeM]

I was in a bit of a hurry when I wrote my last post, so let me just tell you guys why I think we should go after Delay.

First, we should get rid of Delay just for being corrupt regardless of whether it's politically expedient. I honestly don't care who would replace him. It would just be the right thing to do.

Secondly, what you guys are basically implying is that our side is too pathetic to handle people like Mitch McConnel and Karl Rove. If we're going to avoid taking out a corrupt politician just because we're afraid that things are going to get too hard for us, then we might as well just give up. Who cares if some of these republicans are smart. It's going to be tough for democrats anyway, so why don't we just get rid of Tom Delay and be ready to take on whoever comes after him?

[gratelady1]

Your arguement is traditionally correct, but counter-intuitive, in the sense that Delay is a joke and if he represents the best the Repubs have to offer (they say he is the most successful) when in reality- the entire U.S. can see that he is a working- dishonest joke, then the longer he is in the spot-lite the better to poison the pervebial repub "well". It will be death by association over all aspiring repubs. And it does not mean we are pathetic, it means we are allowing them to hang themselves ie- though in a political sense. Go after Delay but only with a moderated amount of pressure so he remains in his position and he will be our poster child for corruptness by Repubs.

[dhirschp]

I have a great slogan for a t-shirt, "Hot Tub Tommy Please Resign.

[gratelady1]

I have a better one-
"Tom Delay- The Democrat's best DELAYed Weapon"

[The Whig]

I don't buy the let DeLay stay because he's corrupt and embarrasing thing. This only makes sense if you are strictly partisan. For the time being, I want someone who is not a corrupt money grubbing whore running congress regardless of what party they come from.

[gratelady1]

If your premice is true, then you dont want any politician to serve any position in government.

[The Whig]

How terribly nihilistic. So much for supporting John Kerry I suppose.

[gratelady1]

Whigman, you are the one proposing that because someone if money-grubbing and crooked and dishonest, he should not serve, is this not nihilistic in it's own right? then your premice- understanding that any politician is all the above- thus he would not be a politician, also undertsanding that politics is getting folks to do what they dont want to or otherwise would not do, unless you manipulate them in some fashion, ie; take their money to support your campaign, lie to them, to make them believe your not a politician etc.. So what's your point? I dont want Delay in my Government either, but I dont see any progressive replacement on the docket in Texas, so far, just a couple of Demos, who are a bit lame for my taste. But to rid your opponents of their weakest link is to strengthen him- think! Whigman.

[The Whig]

Whigman, you are the one proposing that because someone if money-grubbing and crooked and dishonest, he should not serve, is this not nihilistic in it's own right? then your premice- understanding that any politician is all the above- thus he would not be a politician, also undertsanding that politics is getting folks to do what they dont want to or otherwise would not do, unless you manipulate them in some fashion, ie; take their money to support your campaign, lie to them, to make them believe your not a politician etc.. So what's your point? I dont want Delay in my Government either, but I dont see any progressive replacement on the docket in Texas, so far, just a couple of Demos, who are a bit lame for my taste. But to rid your opponents of their weakest link is to strengthen him- think! Whigman.

I don't think all politicians are corrupt, no. Manipulative, necessarily yes. However I don't think that manipulative is necessary a bad thing. Corruption, as in taking lots of money from russian oil companies and paying your family 500k in campaign salary is corrupt. Being that he is so powerful and seemingly so corrupt I think it is better to get rid of him as quickly as possible. The repubs will not let that happen so its really a mute point. That doesn't change my opinion that the Democrats should go after him as rigorously as possible for two reasons, to cripple him and limit his corrupt influence, and to finally get rid of him.

By the way I am a liberal, in the literal sense, not a democrat. ;)

[gratelady1]

The fact that you are liberal is a shame, I would rather associate with Americans- not those who would stifle their country for political gain. I myself am an American first, Progressive second and "the 2 party system hater third. The system as it exist today favors Tom and all his contemporaries, and it keeps this proud nation from realizing it's true potential in the world. The Repubs, the democrats that serve them, and liberals that have been fighting them, are all narrow minded and have nothing but tunnel vision. I can make this comaprison- GWB has been prez for how many years and what has he accopmlished in the world? The Pope JP II was in his position for 26 years what did he accomplish? The answer nothing- true Conservatism- nothing changing- everything still the same. This is not an accomplishment for any Liberal or Conservative, man have we wasted all of God's gifts.

[The Whig]

The fact that you are liberal is a shame. Umm ok?

I would rather associate with Americans- not those who would stifle their country for political gain. Then wouldn't you rather get rid of DeLay, who is corrupt and stifling the country, kind of exactly like I said?

I myself am an American first, You realize that is 100% an accident don't you?

Progressive second and "the 2 party system hater third. The system as it exist today favors Tom and all his contemporaries, and it keeps this proud nation from realizing it's true potential in the world.

Proud? Newsflash, I don't care who you are, what country your descended from, what your nationality is. You are descended from a long line of horrible people. America, like anyother country, killed, stole, raped, discriminated ect whenever doing so would profit it. There is no country on the planet you should be proud of.

The Repubs, the democrats that serve them, and liberals that have been fighting them, are all narrow minded and have nothing but tunnel vision. I can make this comaprison- GWB has been prez for how many years and what has he accopmlished in the world? The Pope JP II was in his position for 26 years what did he accomplish? The answer nothing- true Conservatism- nothing changing- everything still the same. This is not an accomplishment for any Liberal or Conservative, man have we wasted all of God's gifts.

Exactly, the problem is we are now in the midst of a horrible intellectual drought, the so called liberals in america are now in year 40 of rehashing the last useful intellectual period. Wait, that sounds almost......Conservative. :eek:

[-V-]

your point is valid, Whig, that all countries, and for that matter -- all humanity, has participated in horrific acts. People should not be so quick to identify themselves with the borderlines on a map or the colors on a flag. I believe humility is a virtue. Pride -- which is the opposite of humility, is a weakness derived from our desire to satisfy our ego.

Personally, I identify myself as a spiritual being connected with every other spiritual being and I consider the nationality, race, gender, and species of my earthly shell to be irrelevant, not better than the rest, and nothing to boast about.

That having been said, I will come off of my cosmic cloud for a moment to confess that I am damn proud to be called a "liberal" and I am honored to share that label with some of the most knowledgable minds and open hearts the world has ever known.

liberal adj. 1-7.favorable to progress or reform, maximum individual freedom esp. in matters of personal belief or expression, free from prejudice or bigotry, open-minded, tolerant, not bound by traditional ideas, values, etc., characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts. -- Webster's Dictionary

[gratelady1]

I think you guys are supporting all my claims, You just fail to understand that "Liberals" tend to live in a idealistic world and are afraid, if not resistant to learn how to use resources and assets provided by the actual- REAL world around them. Like I said, where are realistic ideas for true meaningful change, and how do you apply them to the world as it is, and in the context of the "political reality" we find oursleves in today? I dont like Tom Delay anymore than you do- but for this specific topic, The original suggestion was to get rid of Tom- thus (I suppose one Rep at a time) get at least one out of the way. The reality is far from helpful. Like I said in previous posts- there is no intelligent- capable- acceptable replacement- by any party down here in Texas. Remember- here in Texas, it is a good example of the political-psychological-split-personality being suffered throughout the country. You see here in Texas- folks are very Traditional and conservative- socially, But politically, they are mostly democrats and liberal in their individual character (they love their individuality and freedom- and resist outside interference- from government). But they are being tought to accept the later. Now I am very messed up because I am truely a result of the great melting pot- I was born Hispanic, raised a Black- in a Red Neck town, under two persuasions of political idealogy. Someone get me a *&^%$# shrink. Or better yet, unite and make a better outside third party, that can best serve my political needs. As far as Tom, I really wish we could pass a law that "if convicted of any type of crime PERIOD, a serving politician should be strung up by his cohones- literally! Pass laws that would disuade any low-life, greedy, coward, son of a PUTA Goat, from running and taking the positions that are supposed to protect us.

[-V-]

"Liberals" tend to live in a idealistic world and are afraid, if not resistant to learn how to use resources and assets provided by the actual- REAL world around them.

Liberals have the courage to use the resources and assets of the human mind and heart to shape the "real world" into a new reality.

As you should know by now, my favorite quote is:

"To surrender dreams -- this may be madness... And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be"

[gratelady1]

WOW! that means you are agreeing with me, Watch it someday I may feel I know what the heck I am talking about. Thanks -V-.

[The Whig]

I agree with you that a third party is the best direction to go in. However, to my way of thinking that should make all us 3rd partiers really non-partisan whilst we wait. Am I more in line with the Democrats than the Republicans? A little I guess. Does that mean I must then become a partisan slave to the Dems? My answer is hell no. Get the corrupt ****er out of office as soon as possible, the law of averages means his successor will probably be less corrupt.

[gratelady1]

When I was young my brothers told me "I was crazy, being Hispanic/Native American, meant I was supposed to be a Democrat", "That I did not even know what a Repub was and all that", Well, I wanted Nixon, Barely wanted Reagan, And hated that the Peanut guy was allowed to Represent the Democratic elite. I did not like the original JFK, and who ever took him out, should have saved his bullets for the latest Kingpin, So what does all this mean- Like I said before, I am a traditionalist, and somewhat conservative- But would like to see the country I live in, live up to it's full potential, but the 2 party system has stifled all change, except the ones they have to react to, and which will prosper their associates the best. I hate the Dems, because the ones in the upper echalons are really Repubs- passing themselves off as liberals- they are not- not even close, They cant suggest that just because they believe in abortion or some simular small time issue, (that is really a State matter), it makes them a Dem. The fact that in the last election, they chose their candidate in response to which one would most likely be voted for by conservatives was a joke! Talking about self-defeating. Right now the conservatives are trying to focus on making their choice for the next Pres. as Hilary. Why would anyone care who the opponent likes? They are the opponent- they are going to take the choice that better reflects their needs- not the Dems. So the 2 party system is out of control and Delay and his bunch are in the drivers seat. The best defense if offense- Let Delay stay in the driver's seat till he smashes the car head-on into a brick wall- Thats where they are headed and why the Repubs know there is no way they will win the next Pres. election, and are harping on Hilary.

[MAGI]

gratelady 1,
I like most of your ideas! I truly love texan Molly Ivins! What a gutzy lady! I wonder how Texans like her? I DO think "that peanut man" was a great President and is a person of tremendous integrity.

I spend 6 months in AZ (for the past17 years) and enjoy 1 -V- thoughts and am in hopes AZ will follow his lead! Gosh, the general population there is really led by the nose........getting better though, Napolitano (Democrat) is Governor. The idea there is as little income tax as possible and tax everything else. Pretty much has been working ...... worse than most states I think. The people actually believe the "reduce the taxes" nonsense and are pretty much at the bottom of every social list because of it. The rich VERY much control EVERYTHING while the general populance seems too busy to see the picture and evidently believe what the old guard spews.

Just found this site and love it. I am so disgusted with my democratic party. They have gone along with the repubs and have been selling us out little by little these past several years. We've got to find someone like Molly to stand up for what is right and find money to back that honest humanitarian, who owes no one.......Possible?

[gratelady1]

Thank you for your incouragement MAGI, That was very kind of you. I really think the best way to go, is to pass the word via-locally (grass-roots), to let local leaders know that if they put their political affiliation, before their local office reponsiblities, they will be held reponsible. This means that at the local level (where we can enjoy a specific amount of control) we should pass ordinances and laws that state "any elected official that does not abide by the law- strictly, will be linched"- I mean court yard hanging- highly publicized- literally. Many elected officials get away with high crimes- simply by diffussion of reponsiblity. This needs to stop, and if the idiots at the upper levels of government see a grass-roots change in accountability, they will know they are next. GWB was able to execute his war against Iraq- solely on 10 year old intelligence, that he passed off as "the best", and thus got everyone on-board with him. Now if we had strict laws saying specifically "that the president must insure that all intelligence is current and highly pausible and accurate"- He would be already be in prison- but he took advantage of the fact that this reponsiblity is ownly assumed - not legally mandatory.

[gratelady1]

Let me add, that if we let Delay off the hook, by simply gettng him out of office, then this in a sense is rewarding through passive reinforcement. My wish list is that he stay in office till we could pass Severe-Harsh Laws that would mean the DEATH PENALTY for crooks like him. And that he be in office to pass that law that would affect him- how nice would that be? I know I am dreaming- but let me enjoy my fantasy.

[MAGI]

Let me add, that if we let Delay off the hook, by simply gettng him out of office, then this in a sense is rewarding through passive reinforcement. My wish list is that he stay in office till we could pass Severe-Harsh Laws that would mean the DEATH PENALTY for crooks like him. And that he be in office to pass that law that would affect him- how nice would that be? I know I am dreaming- but let me enjoy my fantasy.

And may I add, evangelically, Amen!

My home is CT. Home of that GREAT Democrat, Joe Lieberman...uh, I have my tongue in cheek when I say this. Just a pure waste of time calling that office! Remember "The kiss"? Anyway, I keep trying! Last wrote Joe Biden and Senator Dodd...not a word back from them......Told them how disappointed I am about the American dream drifting out to sea.

Ct. is trying to add a tax on the upper income class to support education,healthcare,ect. which has become such a burden on property owners in our towns. This goes back to Ronald's day when the poor had to start pulling themselves up by their bootstraps (too bad they had no boots) and good ole Gingrich "get gov't off our backs". Well, we're there now! And George still wants MORE! The states were dumped on and the towns are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I'd like to show every concerned citizen some of the responses to our Hartford Courant's editorial ....."Democrats' Tax Plan Is Unfair" which complained about the "soak-the-rich" tax system proposed by our state Democratic legislative leaders.. one writer wrote after a few of our VERY wealthy complained they may have to leave our state... won't be able to afford living here, :-) ...."Here they are again, the poor. victimized wealthy of this state. Whine. whine and whine again.", "God forbid that they should be deprived of some of the tax cuts the Bush administration has been handing out to them, an average of $135,000 for every million made in 2003." "We see a continuous aggrandizement of wealth at the top, and a general pauperization of the rest of the country trying to make it on low wages, often without health insurance. These are the Connecticut residents who enjoy a "free lunch budget," according to the Courant's editorial."

Another response to our whiners, "My heart goes out to that tiny band of oppressed rich people forced to march in the pouring rain (getting soaked as it were) while being forced to carry the burden of the poor. And, oh, the tears as they cry: "We'd really like to help you with health care, education and all. That would be great but, sob, we just can't afford it."
"I'm sick of this self-serving attitude! Providing for the basic needs of the poor, the elderly, the sick: educating our young, these should be your top priorities. Determine the needs, develop and fund programs to provide for these needs and develop a fair and just way to raise the money needed."
"Can anyone remember that kid walking with a child on his back and saying: "He ain't heavy, he's my brother"?"

" Or how about the guy who, years ago, was always getting into trouble with rich people? He talked about feeding people, clothing them and housing them and said: "In so much as you have done these things to the least of these my people, you have done unto me." Does anybody remember him?"

Hey Dubya, ever hear of HIM???

How about it Corporate America? Pretty soon the majority of us won't be able to afford your products, services and YOUR tax breaks! Our costs and taxes are taking it all! What then????

Keep up this chatter, good people, maybe some one will hear and finally open their eyes!

We all can't go on welfare if we have a catastrophe! Or will we simply be lined up at trenches and put out of this life? ..........

[gratelady1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9257196/

MSN, has the latest on Delay and his Texans for a Republican Majority committee, the news is that Delay or anyone else of relative importance will not be charged with a felony, but that the committe is being charged. This is paramount to not charging Bush for incompetence after Hurricane Katrina, but instead going after the U.S., like any other type of Corporation, it allows for the interested party to be affiliated, and to control the bussiness, but they will never be held accountable.

The main weakness and why Corporate America will not endure, is the fact of lack of accountablity, and some day the average "Joe" on the street, will have enough of that crap!

[snowdog]

WOW! that means you are agreeing with me, Watch it someday I may feel I know what the heck I am talking about. Thanks -V-.

LOL, don't worry bout that gratelady, you have no clue of what your talking
about. Shall we talk about liberals/Democrates who have gotten away with
some pretty nasty crimes. IE.... Mayor of DC caught on tape buying Crack,

can you say "Whitewater" ?

How bout ol Gary Conduit? and the affair with his intern, then she came
up missing. hummm

how bout the legendary politicians (dems) of Louisanna, and their well
know corruptness?

how come it seems so many Liberals, "Progressives" seem to absolutly
hate conservatives and their values, make statements that are only half
the story? reminds me of my Son coming home from School a while back
his liberal teacher in her lesson of that day was about all the gas we
americans use. That we are to wasteful. So I told him fine, that I would
conserve more and so would he, which meant he doesn't drive our second
car to school anymore, he walks, or takes the bus. Gosh, just like that
he changed his opinion on the subject.

[gratelady1]

LOL,

how come it seems so many Liberals, "Progressives" seem to absolutly
hate conservatives and their values, make statements that are only half
the story? reminds me of my Son coming home from School a while back
his liberal teacher in her lesson of that day was about all the gas we
americans use. That we are to wasteful. So I told him fine, that I would
conserve more and so would he, which meant he doesn't drive our second
car to school anymore, he walks, or takes the bus. Gosh, just like that
he changed his opinion on the subject.

Huh, can we stay on issue here?
How is proving everyone else guilty of everything, going to get Delay off?

And BTW, true Progressives are not Liberals- Liberals could only be so lucky! Trying to poison the well by associateing Liberals and progressives, is pretty simpleton type political propoganda- nice try though :D

[gratelady1]

LOL, don't worry bout that gratelady, you have no clue of what your talking
about.
conservatives and their values, make statements that are only half
the story? reminds me of my Son coming home from School a while back
his liberal teacher in her lesson of that day was about all the gas we
americans use. That we are to wasteful. So I told him fine, that I would
conserve more and so would he, which meant he doesn't drive our second
car to school anymore, he walks, or takes the bus. Gosh, just like that
he changed his opinion on the subject.

:p Haa, haa, haa, ha, ha, nahh, nah, na, na, na :p
Delay got spanked, Delay got spanked- he's a dirty wrotten egg...
nah, nah, nah, na, na , na-
Whoop!

Ok so im childish, but that crook had it coming for how long now?

Way to go Earl!!! :D

[snowdog]

:) I was waiting for your reaction to that, took a bit longer than I had
expected. And you know what? If when he goes to trial, if he is
found guilty...... I hope he gets the harshest penalty.

I was watching Hannity Yesterday, Sean was going after Mr. Earl,
about this was the 7th time he has tried to get an indictment on Delay.
As I told my wife. whether Its politically motivated or not, If Mr. Delay
did something illigal. PUNISH HIM ! it doesn't matter if Mr. Earl was hired
by the Democratic Party to go after him (No I'm not saying he was) It
doesn't matter Right is Right..... Wrong is Wrong.

Oddly enough, you seem to think that I am a die-hard Republican. I have
Never indicated that I was .... I only question the opinions and views. as
to why they are held. You call me a feeble minded Neo-Nazi communist
Blah, Blah, Blah.....Because I simply ask you why? why do you feel GWB
Doesn't care? "LOOK, HERES PROOF SEE GWB STANDING WITH HIS ARM
AROUND A NY FIREFIGHTER." I get the impression that You have such Blind
hatred for GWB that you actually believe the stuff your throwing out. I am
not much better though..as I sit here and debate you over it. I guess part
of the reason is I have printed several of our debates, the Neighbors get a
Kick outta you. The first 3 papers, they honestly thought you were a young
impressionable teen. One lady, bet me a a car wash to the winner that you
were under 18. When I had shown her one of your postings about your son
in the Military......Well the car got washed Monday :)

[gratelady1]

:) I was waiting for your reaction to that, took a bit longer than I had
expected. And you know what? If when he goes to trial, if he is
found guilty...... I hope he gets the harshest penalty.

I was watching Hannity Yesterday, Sean was going after Mr. Earl,
about this was the 7th time he has tried to get an indictment on Delay.
As I told my wife. whether Its politically motivated or not, If Mr. Delay
did something illigal. PUNISH HIM ! it doesn't matter if Mr. Earl was hired
by the Democratic Party to go after him (No I'm not saying he was) It
doesn't matter Right is Right..... Wrong is Wrong.

Oddly enough, you seem to think that I am a die-hard Republican. I have
Never indicated that I was .... I only question the opinions and views. as
to why they are held. You call me a feeble minded Neo-Nazi communist
Blah, Blah, Blah.....Because I simply ask you why? why do you feel GWB
Doesn't care? "LOOK, HERES PROOF SEE GWB STANDING WITH HIS ARM
AROUND A NY FIREFIGHTER." I get the impression that You have such Blind
hatred for GWB that you actually believe the stuff your throwing out. I am
not much better though..as I sit here and debate you over it. I guess part
of the reason is I have printed several of our debates, the Neighbors get a
Kick outta you. The first 3 papers, they honestly thought you were a young
impressionable teen. One lady, bet me a a car wash to the winner that you
were under 18. When I had shown her one of your postings about your son
in the Military......Well the car got washed Monday :)

Spank that bootie, spank that bootie, spank that bootie-
imagine this to Earth Wind and Fires "Celebration" song.
Gratelady1 is partying tonight!!!
Celebrate good times-come-on Nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh,nuh, nnuh-nuhh- yahooo!

I am sorry I called you all the above names- they dont deserve that comparison ;)

[gratelady1]

:)
I guess part of the reason is I have printed several of our debates, the Neighbors get a Kick outta you. The first 3 papers, they honestly thought you were a young impressionable teen. One lady, bet me a a car wash to the winner that you were under 18. When I had shown her one of your postings about your son in the Military......Well the car got washed Monday :)

Is this your post?

If so, are we to understand- that you and your neighbors dont believe anyone under the age of 18 is capable of intelligent cognitive thought, lack concise argueing abilities, and thus should not be posting here?
My 15 year old daughter will be very disappointed to here that.

[snowdog]

Is this your post?

If so, are we to understand- that you and your neighbors dont believe anyone under the age of 18 is capable of intelligent cognitive thought, lack concise argueing abilities, and thus should not be posting here?
My 15 year old daughter will be very disappointed to here that.


Ummm if they were then they would be allowed to vote wouldn't they?

they would allowed to sign legal binding contracts or agreements wouldn't
they? they would join the Military at 17 with out their parents permission
wouldn't they.

I would like to believe you daughter is very intelligent. but when was the last
time she voted?


hey alls I know is that my neighbor seriously assumed that YOU were under
the age of 18, I won the bet. take it up with her of what she thinks a person
under 18 knows or doesn't know. got it wrong again didn't you glady1?

[gratelady1]

Ummm if they were then they would be allowed to vote wouldn't they?

they would allowed to sign legal binding contracts or agreements wouldn't
they? they would join the Military at 17 with out their parents permission
wouldn't they.

I would like to believe you daughter is very intelligent. but when was the last
time she voted?

So your arguement is based on your belief, that if you cant vote- you dont have no intellectual capacity- is that right?

[snowdog]

So your arguement is based on your belief, that if you cant vote- you dont have no intellectual capacity- is that right?


Well, its in the constitution. So plese by all means take it up with
the Supreme court glady1 harrass them for a while.

[gratelady1]

Spank that bootie, spank that bootie, spank that bootie!
Whoop!

[Lionhearted]

Submitted for your approval, a scorecard of some of Bush's friends:

Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Grover Nordquist, Michael Scanlon - conservative lobbyists - accused of making illegal gifts and campaign contributions to, among others, TOM DELAY, Conrad Burns (R) Montana, and Bob Ney (R) Ohio. Abramoff is also under investigation in Guam for money laundering and illegal contract payments and has been indicted in Florida for bank fraud.

David Safavian, former chief of staff at the GSA and currently the federal procurement administrator, arrested and accused of lying and obstructing the federal investigation of Abramoff.

Bill Frist (R) Tennessee, Senate Majority Leader, currently under investigation for insider trading regarding his sale of Hospital Corporation of America stock.

Joseph Schmitz, Pentagon Inspector General (until a few weeks ago), accused of blocking investigations into unnamed adminsitration officials and accepting illegal gifts.

Scooter Libby, Cheney's Chief of Staff, involved in all the administration's national security lies, read all about it (http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=109719) also revealed to be the source for the administration's NY Times mouthpiece Judy Miller in the Valerie Plame scandal.

[snowdog]

Submitted for your approval, a scorecard of some of Bush's friends:
Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Grover Nordquist, Michael Scanlon - conservative lobbyists - accused of making illegal gifts and campaign contributions to, among other TOM DELAY, Conrad Burns (R) Montana, and Bob Ney (R) Ohio. Abramoff is also under investigation in Guam for money laundering and illegal contract payments and has been indicted in Florida for bank fraud.

David Safavian, former chief of staff at the GSA and currently the federal procurement administrator, arrested and accused of lying and obstructing the federal investigation of Abramoff.

Bill Frist (R) Tennessee, Senate Majority Leader, currently under investigation for insider trading regaring his sale of Hospital Corporation of America stock.

Joseph Schmitz, Pentagon Inspector General (until a few weeks ago), accused of blocking investigations into unnamed adminsitration officials and accepting illegal gifts.

Scooter Libby, Cheney's Chief of Staff, involved in all the administration's national security lies, read all about it (http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=109719) also revealed to be the source for the administration's NY Times mouthpiece Judy Miller in the Valerie Plame scandal.

Did Hillary ever find those documents? She was looking for them for two years
Whats up with SANDY BeRGER these days.
Who was that close friend of Bill and Hilliary that Blew his head off, one week
before he was to testify.
Oh goodness, does Bill ever speak with Monica anymore?
I am glad Bill had such good friends that they were will to go to jail rather
than testyfy against him

ANd In my humble opinion. TED KENNEDY on the ethics committee. That one
is just precious.

[Lionhearted]

This is kind of funny:

The day after U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay's grand jury indictment, his lawyer and the jury foreman on Thursday appeared to contradict the Texas politician's assertions that he was not given a chance to speak before the jury.

The foreman, William M. Gibson Jr., a retired state insurance investigator, said the Travis County grand jury waited until Wednesday, the final day of its term, to indict him because it was hoping he would accept jurors' invitation to testify.

Delay says:

DeLay said in interviews that the grand jury never asked him to testify.

His lawyer says:

Dick DeGuerin, the attorney representing DeLay, said Thursday that DeLay actually was invited to appear before the grand jury, where he would have been under oath. The Houston attorney was not yet on the legal team when DeLay was asked to appear, but he said other attorneys advised him not to testify — a decision DeGuerin supports.

In essence DeGuerin is saying, my client is a liar. LMFAO!!!!

Full article here (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3376104)

[gratelady1]

You go lionman!
Spank that bootie!, spank that bootie! spank that bootie!
whoop!

[Lionhearted]

More fun with The Hammer, from the horse's own mouth:

Compilation of Fox News interview with DeLay Quicktime Video stream (http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/Delay-FOX1.320.240.mov.html)

Among other things DeLay states:
I have had ethics charges filed starting in 1993
Again in 1995
A racketeering suit right after that
Some more ethics charges right after that
This has been going on for two years, multiple grand juries, and then they come out with an indictment
This and much much more. Why on earth would a human under indictment say such incriminating things about himself?

[gratelady1]

Because Tom Delay, is a "Pendeho", and I personally will be happy he will not be able to screw up Sugarland anymore.
Spank that bootie!, spank that bootie! spank that bootie!
whoop! :p

[snowdog]

Because Tom Delay, is a "Pendeho", and I personally will be happy he will not be able to screw up Sugarland anymore.
Spank that bootie!, spank that bootie! spank that bootie!
whoop! :p


As I have indicated, if he is found guilty, he's guilty and should obviously
be punished. Several Dems and republicans have indicated that more than
likely he will not be found guilty. The main goal was achieved, which was
to get Delay, out of his leadership position in the republican party.

Should he be found innocent may I "borrow" your line about "spank that bootie"?

[MAGI]

More fun with The Hammer, from the horse's own mouth:

Compilation of Fox News interview with DeLay Quicktime Video stream (http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/Delay-FOX1.320.240.mov.html)

Among other things DeLay states:
I have had ethics charges filed starting in 1993
Again in 1995
A racketeering suit right after that
Some more ethics charges right after that
This has been going on for two years, multiple grand juries, and then they come out with an indictment

This and much much more. Why on earth would a human under indictment say such incriminating things about himself?

.....and his "Golf" trip which Abramoff financed to Scotland included a meeting with Margerat Thatcher in 2000 no less......... Do you think we can pull off a WAR in IRAQ now?, maybe................
:confused:

[gratelady1]

As I have indicated, if he is found guilty, he's guilty and should obviously
be punished. Several Dems and republicans have indicated that more than
likely he will not be found guilty. The main goal was achieved, which was
to get Delay, out of his leadership position in the republican party.

Should he be found innocent may I "borrow" your line about "spank that bootie"?

If it will give you as much joy, to see him get off, as it has given me to finally see him brought up on anything, and to acomplish something from these charges, then I will give you my line, with a red ribbon round it;
Spank that bootie, spank that bootie. spank that bootie,
Whoop! :D

[snowdog]

OK, thanks.

[gratelady1]

OK, thanks.

Oh- is that another indictment?

Spank that bootie, spank that bootie. spank that bootie,
Whoop!

Man this gentleman is dirtier than Chritina Aguilera!

[snowdog]

Yea I seen that other charge, Its not looking good for the hammer

[snowdog]

Ummmm. turns out that the "second charge" is not exactly a "second
charge" In that the first charge was against Mr. Delay's actions in
2002. The Law that Mr. Earl was using against Mr. Delay didn't go into
effect until 2003. That is why Mr. Earl, "modified" the indictment.

[gratelady1]

Ummmm. turns out that the "second charge" is not exactly a "second
charge" In that the first charge was against Mr. Delay's actions in
2002. The Law that Mr. Earl was using against Mr. Delay didn't go into
effect until 2003. That is why Mr. Earl, "modified" the indictment.

Oh thanks for the correction :rolleyes:
But can I still spank that bootie? :D

[snowdog]

you certainly can.

[snowdog]

UH-OHHH, it appears charges have been filed against Mr. Earl.
Prosecutoral "misconduct". it appears that Mr. Earl harrassed
jurors on the idictment of Mr. Delay. lets see how it all turns out.

I know, I know, If Delay gets convicted, Yaaaa.. horayyyyyyy!
if he doesn't....hummm lets see, the republican parties power got in
and fixed the jury. Or they bought the judge. Or well, lets just wait
see, I know there will be a whole bunch of excuses though won't there?

[gratelady1]

Imagine a world where you are rich and powerful enough, that you can spit in "Lady Justice's" face, with all the arrogance you could muster, and pick and choose your judge.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174129,00.html

Does anyone like Tom really believe they are totally untouchable?

[Lionhearted]

Well it seems that DeLay's lawyers have been successful in having Judge Perkins removed from the case. I wonder how many drug dealers wish they could have the option of having a hardcore anti-drug judge removed from their cases?
I can foresee the possibility of the Dems using this if they decide to fight the Alito SCOTUS nomination. Something along the lines of okay if it is not allright to have one you perceive to be an idealogue sit in judgement of DeLay then why should we allow one we perceive the same way sit on the Supreme Court. Poorly worded but I hope what I am trying to say comes through.

[gratelady1]

Well it seems that DeLay's lawyers have been successful in having Judge Perkins removed from the case. I wonder how many drug dealers wish they could have the option of having a hardcore anti-drug judge removed from their cases?
I can foresee the possibility of the Dems using this if they decide to fight the Alito SCOTUS nomination. Something along the lines of okay if it is not allright to have one you perceive to be an idealogue sit in judgement of DeLay then why should we allow one we perceive the same way sit on the Supreme Court. Poorly worded but I hope what I am trying to say comes through.

It was excellently worded- To think there are Conservative Repubs out there happy Tom could do such a thing, but they dont see the presidence this sets.

Everyone and his momma will be demanding to see the political records of these conservative heathens, that have taken over all judicial posts. So thanks to Tom for showing how corupt our system of justice is and for perverting all cases to come, if you cant see how selfish and self centered this bastard is- then buy a light and some powerful glasses.

[Lionhearted]

Well it has happened again.

Second Judge Out for DeLay Trial (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051103/ap_on_go_co/delay_indictment_judge;_ylt=AsCRe.EnfZog9df6cueFzP qs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

Administrative Judge B.B. Schraub, a Republican who was to have selected the judge for the case, withdrew after Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle filed a request to have him removed. Two days earlier, District Judge Bob Perkins was removed from the case at DeLay's request because of his contributions to Democrats.

Schraub asked Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson to name a judge to preside over DeLay's trial, and Jefferson selected semi-retired Senior Judge Pat Priest of San Antonio. Jefferson's involvement, however, could invite yet another challenge.

State documents examined by The Associated Press show that Jefferson's 2002 campaign treasurer, Bill Ceverha, also was the treasurer of DeLay's Texans for a Republican Majority Political Action Committee. Ceverha was a defendant this spring in a civil trial brought by Democrats who lost state legislative races to Republicans in 2002.

Lawyers on both sides in DeLay's case have argued that political contributions by judges have harmed at least the appearance of impartiality. But in a state where judges are elected and free to contribute to candidates and political parties, it could be a challenge to find a judge who meets both sides' definition of impartial.

Pat Priest? The woman who played Marilyn Munster in the 60's? Just kidding.
It appears the only solution will be to find a judge who has never voted.

[haus]

I've been looking for the best "Fire Rove" and "Fire DeLay" email/petition campaigns. Here are my choices:

Tell Republican Congressmembers to Return DeLay's Dirty Money: http://www.dccc.org/campaignforchange/petitions/armpac/default/

Demand that Delay resign from Congress:
http://ga3.org/campaign/withoutdelay

Tell Bu$h to fire Rove: http://political.moveon.org/firerove/

[snowdog]

I've been looking for the best "Fire Rove" and "Fire DeLay" email/petition campaigns. Here are my choices:

Tell Republican Congressmembers to Return DeLay's Dirty Money: http://www.dccc.org/campaignforchange/petitions/armpac/default/

Demand that Delay resign from Congress:
http://ga3.org/campaign/withoutdelay

Tell Bu$h to fire Rove: http://political.moveon.org/firerove/


LOL, are you even aware that perhaps the author of those pieces is maybe
JUST A BIT BIASED? :D again as I have mentioned several times before, please
quit believing all that these idiots write.....Make an informed decision on the
facts YOU gather....not some Liberal Smuck. I know its a loosing cause, but it
gets depressing that there are so many that believe all the crap written by
people with a grip against GWB because he oppooses gay marriage, or because
he won't bow to the left and their low sense of values, principles.

[haus]

LOL... I know its a loosing cause, but it
gets depressing that there are so many that believe all the crap written by
people with a grip against GWB because he oppooses gay marriage, or because
he won't bow to the left and their low sense of values, principles.

Yeah, that's true. We're part of such a tiny little splinter of the population with our radical views... Oh wait, here's a Gallup Poll on Rove (http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/2005-07-25-july-poll.htm#rove):

17. Do you think George W. Bush should fire Karl Rove?
[Based on a poll of 497 adults]
Yes: 40%
No: 39%
No Opinion 21%

18. Do you think Karl Rove should resign from the Bush administration?
[Based on a poll of 509 adults]
Yes: 49
No: 31
No Opinion: 20%

And, oh yeah, didn't Bu$h say anybody who was involved should be fired?

I apologise once again for being such a nut on the fringe. :)

(I'll post on DeLay later)

[haus]

OK... so I'm supposed to illustrate that calling for DeLay to resign from congress is a mainstream idea... Here we go:

1) “[DeLay’s] angry reaction to being admonished by his peers shows that DeLay is too arrogant to mend his ways.” Chicago Tribune, 10/11/04

2) “House Majority Leader Tom DeLay is a national embarrassment and should resign his leadership position, if not his office.” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 10/10/04

3) “[It] shows a dismaying pattern of abusing official authority in pursuit of personal interests and purely partisan concerns.” Louisville Courier-Journal, 10/9/04

4) “It’s taken too long, but House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's shady ethics may finally be catching up to him.” Washington Post, 10/8/04

Oh, but wait, newspapers are left wing propeganda, aren't they. Of his own constituents (Tx 22nd Dist) on a poll less than 2 weeks old, 51% disapprove of the job he's doing and 42% think he should resign from congress. (http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=6c9b8f80-dbb3-483a-9e0b-61a64cb5e931)

So, I'm looking forward to seeing how I get branded as a left-wing wingnut for this contention. :)

[snowdog]

OK... so I'm supposed to illustrate that calling for DeLay to resign from congress is a mainstream idea... Here we go:

1) “[DeLay’s] angry reaction to being admonished by his peers shows that DeLay is too arrogant to mend his ways.” Chicago Tribune, 10/11/04

2) “House Majority Leader Tom DeLay is a national embarrassment and should resign his leadership position, if not his office.” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 10/10/04

3) “[It] shows a dismaying pattern of abusing official authority in pursuit of personal interests and purely partisan concerns.” Louisville Courier-Journal, 10/9/04

4) “It’s taken too long, but House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's shady ethics may finally be catching up to him.” Washington Post, 10/8/04

Oh, but wait, newspapers are left wing propeganda, aren't they. Of his own constituents (Tx 22nd Dist) on a poll less than 2 weeks old, 51% disapprove of the job he's doing and 42% think he should resign from congress. (http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=6c9b8f80-dbb3-483a-9e0b-61a64cb5e931)

So, I'm looking forward to seeing how I get branded as a left-wing wingnut for this contention. :)


UMMM....Haus, reading your post, I certainly could be wrong, but Dude you
ARE to the left aren't you?

[haus]

I suppose the "wingnut" assertion was what I was aiming at. :)

[gratelady1]

Spank that Bootie!!!
Whoop!

[haus]

This isn't illegal. Whether it's unethical or not could be debated, but probably not conclusively. I will claim that it makes Haus reach for the Pepto-Bismol:

From http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/21/sr.mon/index.html:

"Vice President Cheney is scheduled to appear at a Dec. 5, Houston fundraiser on DeLay's behalf. Donors are being asked to contribute at least $500, according to an e-mail sent by the Fort Bend (Texas) Republican Party. Shannon Flaherty, DeLay's spokeswoman, confirmed details of the fundraiser."

DeLay is up for reelection in a little less than a year. His opponent is Nick Lampson. You can find out more or volunteer for Lampson's campaign at http://www.lampson.com/.

[haus]

Hot off the presses from The AP (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_re_us/lobbyist_tribes;_ylt=Ai8vGSAwEJCZtQXGxrRiGHus0NUE; _ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-) :

Ex-DeLay Aide Pleads Guilty in Conspiracy

Michael Scanlon...pleaded guilty Monday to conspiring to bribe public officials...a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay, entered the plea before U.S. District Judge Ellen Segal Huvelle and agreed to pay restitution totaling more than $19 million to the tribes.

Scanlon, who is expected to cooperate in the investigation of Abramoff and members of Congress, could face up to five years in prison.

[gratelady1]

Now let me see- if my ass kissing assistant/suckretary screws up in my business, am I not- as the owner/boss then also responsible in some way? Hummm.....

Spank that bootie, spank that bootie.. the party is getting hot!

[haus]

On the DeLay front: The judge denied a motion to throw out the charges. Will make a decision whether to take the case to trial on 5 December. (Rats -- I thought this would keep things lively until Congress reconvenes...) More at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/22/delay.indictment/index.html

On the Scanlon front (from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/21/AR2005112100719.html):


he "plead guilty yesterday to conspiring to bribe a congressman and other public officials" over a period of four years and testified that Abramoff did too.
"he is prepared to offer [testimony] against...Rep. Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio)" that he offered him gifts "in exchange for a series of official acts"
"investigators are looking at half a dozen members of Congress, current and former senior Hill aides, a former deputy secretary of the interior, and Abramoff's former lobbying colleagues"


It'll be interesting to see how this effects DeLay. Also, we only need 15 seats to take back the House. Having 6 republican incumbents sitting in prison would be quite a treat.

[RoannaM]

Its pretty funny that Mr. Delay opposes judge shopping for everyone but him and his cronies. Just another example of seperate rules for us and them. I hope Delay is thrown out by Texas voters or I wil accept his resignation now or upon his inevitable conviction. I can not wait for this corrupt little man to sit in a jail cell and think about what he has done, or in his case figure out how to screw us some more. I have no doubt this evil minion has many more tricks up his sleeve. God help us get rid of this clown.

[snowdog]

"another example of seperate rules for us and them."

that statement is bizzare to me. in saying that....Do you mean US as
in US citizens and "them" meaning the Republican Party?

Is there any way that we can wait to see if Delay is found guilty of any
crime? unless you have some inside information that I am not privy too.

Do you not find it a bit partisian that the Prosecutor at a Democratic
fund raising event had said that he wanted to bring Delay down?

If you were involved in a court case You Verses the city of Dallas, and
you were up on charges of animal cruelty. would you want the prosecutor
at a peta Rally making the charge that he wants to bring you down. Because
you allow your Bull Mastiff to ride in the back of your truck? Or how bout
being for the judge that donates $ to PETA. would you want that Judge
to preside over that trial?

[haus]

If the ARMPAC-to-TRMPAC deal was the only thing he was accused of, I'd be a lot more lenient with DeLay. Here's some other stuff he's done:


Accepted trips from corporations and later helped kill legislation they opposed
Accepted trips from the lobbyist for a foreign government in violation of House rules
Paid family members more than $500,000 out of campaign contributions
Helped sweatshops in the Mariana Islands at the behest of a lobbyist.
Promised a role in drafting legislation to a corporate donor
Tried to coerce a Congressman for a vote on Medicare
Used Homeland Security resources in a dispute with Democrats in Texas
Diverted funds from a children's charity for lavish celebrations at the Republican convention
Threatened retaliation against interest groups that don't support Republicans
Stacked the House Ethics Committee with representatives who have contributed to his legal defense fund
Crippled the effectiveness of the House Ethics Committee by purging members who had rebuked him
Pushed for a rules change for the House Ethics process that paralyzed the panel
Sought a rule change that would have no longer "required leaders to step aside temporarily if indicted"


Note the words "alleged" or "accused" aren't used anywhere in this list.

To me, the ARMPAC/TRMPAC indictment is like busting Capone on tax-evasion.

[snowdog]

well, those are accusations. some are probably true. Please tell me that
your not naive enough to think that Tom Delay is the only Politician, (Rep or
Dem) serving RIGHT NOW. that takes advantage of their position.

Wasn't it bill Clinton AND Hillary who tried to take dozens of white house
properties when he was leaving office? hummm if I was renting, and I
decided to leave and take the rentors Fridge, Air Conditioner, etc, hell
I'd be arrested for grand Theft!!


no comment on the "seek and destroy" Democrat Prosecutor Mr. Earl?

isn't this the 6th or 7th attempt on his part to bring down Delay....
Two times, 3 times. That could almost be understandable...but 6 times?
come on HAUS ! don't you find that at a LITTLE bit strange? I would
be filing charges against the prosecutor for harrassment! as would YOU!

[haus]

well, those are accusations. some are probably true. Please tell me that
your not naive enough to think that Tom Delay is the only Politician, (Rep or
Dem) serving RIGHT NOW. that takes advantage of their position.


Of course not, I fully expect Ney and six other republicans to be indicted in the Abramoff/Scanlon probes. :)



Wasn't it bill Clinton AND Hillary who tried to take dozens of white house
properties when he was leaving office? hummm if I was renting, and I
decided to leave and take the rentors Fridge, Air Conditioner, etc, hell
I'd be arrested for grand Theft!!


This logic is useless. Let me use the same logic on a different issue: Joseph Stalin killed 21 million people, so we shouldn't take action against Saddam Hussein. It's silly.


no comment on the "seek and destroy" Democrat Prosecutor Mr. Earl?


12 of his 15 prosecutions have been against democrats.


isn't this the 6th or 7th attempt on his part to bring down Delay.... Two times, 3 times. That could almost be understandable...but 6 times?...


I went to the conservative blogs and tomdelay.com to try to run this down and had no luck... Are you talking about the 6 or 7 current indictments? If not, give me a link to something discussing this. I doubt it will change my views on the issue, but if I'm missing something, I would like to know about it.

Capone was on the 10 most wanted list for 11 years before they got him for tax evasion. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get the bad guys.

[snowdog]

the logic isn't silly, my point was a vast majority of all politiians are
involved in shady deals. why the hell do ya think their politicians! Hell,
the Mayor in DC was on Tape smoking Crack in a Motel room with a
Prostitute. His defense....the Prosecutor set me up? The SOB is still
in politics a councilman in the DC area! Now charged in withholding
his income. His excuse this time " I didn't know I had to pay taxes
on that income!"

Read up a bit more on the Earl Vs Delay saga. you'll find that Earl
tried to get a grand Jury 6 TIMES to indic REp Delay. You might also
want to know that one of the Charges had to be dropped because the
law Mr. Earl said Mr. Delay broke.... didn't go into effect until a year
later!

I get the funny feeling that Mr. Earl is gonna make a fool of himself before
its all over. If Delay is convicted great PUNISH HIM to the fullest extent
of the Law! But if he is found NOT GUILTY. that of course won't be
acceptable to many of you will it. GWB called the Jury and pressured them
right? I'm sure there will be plenty of excuses should that happen. And if
he is found innocent or the case is tossed! YOU and Your fellow Delay
bashers is gonna have some "splaining" to do, what say you?

[haus]

Read up a bit more on the Earl Vs Delay saga. you'll find that Earl tried to get a grand Jury 6 TIMES to indic REp Delay.


It's not my job to support your claims, it's yours. I've spent a lot of time coming up with links for you to support my claims, I think you could return the favor in this instance.

YOU and Your fellow Delay bashers is gonna have some "splaining" to do, what say you?

Nah, he's a scumbag. The house ethics committee has proven that to my satisfaction. We'll get him sooner or later, or replace him with Lampson.

[snowdog]

actually I put the site on another thread, when I believe it was Lionhart
told me to prove it! I will search abit and see if I can't find it for you.

there ya go Haus....Hope this helps, You might also want to read the
part about indictments in the clinton administration WOW appears the
Bush admin. is quite a ways behind Mr. C.intons administration. I
Do stand corrected though, Mr. Earl tried 3 times to get a grand
jury to indict Mr. Delay. My bad. very interesting readig though.

http://www.captainscomments.com/comments/187.asp


hope this helps......

[haus]

OK... I think we can put this little mini-barrage to bed:


Mr. Earl tried 3 times to get a grand jury to indict Mr. Delay.



Two times, 3 times. That could almost be understandable...


So, you agree that the prosecutor's actions are "understandable." :)

As I've said a buzillion times before, Clinton's not the north on my moral compass. I think I might need to break down and read Ann Coulter's book -- is that where you get this rhetorical technique about pointing out other politicians are corrupt to draw attention from the scumbags in the crosshairs?

(p.s. If I didn't have a turkey sandwich 10 feet away, I would have dismissed your site are meaningless right-wing blather and requested a more unbiased source. ;) )

[snowdog]

I'm sorry that it didn't agree with your opinion Haus. I will do my best in
the future to find more Liberally biased. will that work for you?

You seem to have missed the point. I have been trying to make all along
Dems as well as republicans lie, cheat and steal. the difference between
the large host of names on MY site, and your problem is that the ones
mentioned in my site were CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW.....Delay has
not been convicted. that my young navy friend is a FACT.

[snowdog]

No Problem, I kinda assumed you would want to drop it. :)

[haus]

I'm sorry that it didn't agree with your opinion Haus. I will do my best in the future to find more Liberally biased. will that work for you?


I really don't want to get off on a tangent here, but how do you complain about buzzflash day and night and accept "Captain Midnight" as chapter and verse?


You seem to have missed the point. I have been trying to make all along Dems as well as republicans lie, cheat and steal.


Of course they do. The point I've been trying to make is that regardless of what a Democrat did or didn't do 7 years ago, Tom DeLay requires public scrutiny. Elections coming up in 11 months makes it all the more important for us to scrutinize this turd.

And while he hasn't been convicted yet, eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

[snowdog]

Ummm Haus, read back 2-3 of your post. Your the one that wanted the
info Haus remember.....

" It's not my job to support your claims, it's yours. I've spent a lot of time coming up with links for you to support my claims, I think you could return the favor in this instance"

I did as you requested I returned the favor in this instance Hause. If you'd
like I will again do the work and quote you saying that The GWB adminstration
is the most crooked, most treasonous Pres the US has ever seen.
would you like me to do that for you too Haus? Cause what you are saying
and what the FACTS are just don't seem to jive.

[snowdog]

[QUOTE=haus]
Accepted trips from the lobbyist for a foreign government in violation of House rules .... was it bill clinton asking the Top dog in Saudi Arabia for a donation to his
re-election campaign?

Helped sweatshops in the Mariana Islands at the behest of a lobbyist.

what was that thing about Nancy Peolosi? and Mexico?



Diverted funds from a children's charity for lavish celebrations at the Republican convention
Umm isn't Al franken and Air America under investigation
for taking the monies that were supposed to go to children's charities but
seem to have went to MOVEON .org?

Threatened retaliation against interest groups that don't support Republicans

Hasn't Jesse Jackson been thru that same thing? and is still doing it!

Stacked the House Ethics Committee with representatives who have contributed to his legal defense fund
Please explain where that is illegal.....


Pushed for a rules change for the House Ethics process that paralyzed the panel

again.where is that illegal?



Sought a rule change that would have no longer "required leaders to step aside temporarily if indicted"
GWB should be as intelliegent as Bill Clinton avoid all that BS and Just
pardon the SOB's



Note the words "alleged" or "accused" aren't used anywhere in this list.

QUOTE]

Thank you for the input...haus

[haus]

OK, I've spent 15 minutes looking for Nancy Pelosi and sweatshops and the worst thing I've seen is that she praised the Levi-Strauss company, which has sweatshops in China. You've got to give me more to work with here.

Bill Clinton -- I think I've covered that topic 50 times in this thread.

Al Franken, Jesse Jackson: give me a reputable news source.

Ethics committee stuff: never said it was illegal, said it was the work of a scumbag.


GWB should be as intelliegent as Bill Clinton avoid all that BS and Just pardon the SOB's


So, you're saying we should just sweep his indictments under the rug? I thought you wanted him in jail if he was guilty.

[haus]

A set of links to reputable news sources for my list of DeLay's dirty doings is available at http://www.alternet.org/story/21509/.

[snowdog]

"So, you're saying we should just sweep his indictments under the rug? I thought you wanted him in jail if he was guilty."


I won't accept ANY illegal acts in our Government! Republican or Democrat!
If they are guilty......throw the book at him. But come one Haus. Don't you
think Libby .. Cheney ...and GWB spoke about what to do should he be
convicted months ago? If he gets convicted, He will be pardoned. Do I
agree with it no. but thats the way it will be as in the case for the past
200 Years!

and again I was rather rudely told by another poster a while back to "post"
my story on the Air America , Al Franken. which I did concerning the
monies that were suposed to go to Children's Charities. They as you have done
here, discounted the story. I guess because it wasn't from Buzzflash or
moveon.org.

[haus]

I don't discount your story, I can't find it. I tried CNN, Yahoo, Google News.

I have a vague memory of O'Reilly saying something similar about Franken last Feb. or so, but can't dig anything up. I go to billoreilley.com and do a search for "Franken moveon" and get no results.

If I can't find out more about it, I can't really discuss it intelligently can I?

[snowdog]

I will search around for it.

[Lionhearted]

Here are a few links that may help haus:

NY Sun 8/2/2005 (http://www.nysun.com/article/17921)

Michelle Malkin 9/7/2005 (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003487.htm)

Wikpedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Air_America-Gloria_Wise_loan_controversy)

Hope it helps

[haus]

Thanks for the links, Lionhearted.

OK... I went through the linked articles and here's how I read it:

1) Evan Cohen, a former officer at AAR and a former officer at Gloria Wise moved $875,000 from the latter to the former
2) Franken, as a large shareholder signed a contract when when Piquant LLC bought out AAR
3) the contract was a settlement agreement for AAR shareholders to waive their claims against Cohen and Sorenson
4) Franken said he didn't know about the loan in (1)
5) People say his signature on the document in (2 & 3) means he did

I'm not even sure this is right, but so far, I don't see anything here that makes me see red.

If the contention is that a former AAR officer is a scumbag, I'd probably agree.
If the contention is that Al Franken moved $875,000, I don't see that
If your contention is that Al Franken knew about it, I'd shrug and say "I dunno."

If it's something else, let me know.

[snowdog]

Thanks for the links, Lionhearted.


5) People say his signature on the document in (2 & 3) means he did

I'm not even sure this is right, but so far, I don't see anything here that makes me see red.

If the contention is that a former AAR officer is a scumbag, I'd probably agree.
If the contention is that Al Franken moved $875,000, I don't see that
If your contention is that Al Franken knew about it, I'd shrug and say "I dunno."

If it's something else, let me know.


Great searching Lionhart!!
Now Haus......would you agreee that Al Franken is at about the same place
as Tom Delay? there is talk and evidence that Ol Al may be a bit shaky,
as is with Delay.... But none have been convicted of Anything. So can
we both agree that instead of being the judge and jury for both of them
what say we both agree on an "I dunno" for both? till it is proven one
way or another. Just heard about Duke Cunningham. Dang, he was a war
hero, seen him and his exploits on the military channel a couple of times.

[haus]

Your logic continues to baffle me. Saddam hasn't been convicted in court of anything, so should we not discuss him?


U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 5

Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member.


This makes DeLay's situation a political issue. People representing me in Washington decide whether to expel DeLay regardless of whether he's convicted in court of anything or not. I have a responsibility to contact my Representatives and inform them of my opinion on the matter. I also feel a responsibility to encourage others to do the same.

[snowdog]

Your logic continues to baffle me. Saddam hasn't been convicted in court of anything, so should we not discuss him?



This makes DeLay's situation a political issue. People representing me in Washington decide whether to expel DeLay regardless of whether he's convicted in court of anything or not. I have a responsibility to contact my Representatives and inform them of my opinion on the matter. I also feel a responsibility to encourage others to do the same.

thats all good and well haus.....and there are how many repubs in the congress
and the senate? Haus, I never hinted that we shouldn't discuss Delay,
where you got that, I don't know. But you have already convicted him. And
I don't believe that you have that authority. I think that it would be better
left up to the court to decide his guilt or innocence. Same as Weird Al Franken,
Yes, there are reports about some shaky doings, with him and hell, the whole
Air America thing, does that make him guilty.....NO. I should write my reps to
remind them that Defendants are in Fact innocent until proven guilty.

[haus]

But you have already convicted him. And I don't believe that you have that authority.


Of course I do: he works for me. Whether or not he's convicted on the TRMPAC/ARMPAC case doesn't matter. He's a bad employee. It's time for him to leave Congress in disgrace, just like his daddy Newt did.


I should write my reps to remind them that Defendants are in Fact innocent until proven guilty.


Here's a useful way to e-mail your representatives with 1-click: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/officials/

[snowdog]

well Haus, If you had that authority, then why didn't you get rid of him
and all the others you mention as crooks? You have I assume, the authority
to vote for, or against someone, YOU have no authority to decide whether
someone is guilty or innocent or to lay down the punishment. our country's
judicial system does not work that way. we call that "mob mentality". It
is a felony for me or you to "punish" someone outside a court of law.... If
you feel Delay is guilty, which you do, can you place Mr. Delay in a confined
cell? as a jurist you can be part of that process...Yes, but it is a felony for
you or I to confine someone. therefore....you DO NOT have the authority.

It should also be noted that according to you you are in St. Paul, Minn...
Tom Delay is from Texas, You cannot even vote for or against him!!!

[haus]

Whether he's in prison or not is a separate matter. I hope he, his 13 republican pals, and his 3 democrat pals all go to prison. If the powers that be don't sense a feeling of public outrage, I don't think they will.

But, the heart of my argument is that he has no business continuing to earn my tax dollars on Capitol Hill.

Article I, Section 5 of the Constitution gives my representative the right to vote DeLay out of the house if he thinks he's doing a bad job. My representative's job is to act on the will of his constituents. My job is to express my will effectively to my representative. Anything less is shameful laziness.

[snowdog]

I can agree with that. point is, you or I do not have the "authority"to
punish him, we have the ability to contact those who can punish him and
persuade them to punish him, but we do not have any authority in the
matter.