Arizona- the official "English" State [Archive]

gratelady1

05/09/05, 01:46 pm

Arizona is on the official totalitarian/facist hunt again, taking up legislation that would make "English" (what ever that is) the official language of Arizona. Are they not so special? Anyway anyone knows the "English" translation for "Arizona"- Oh yes- "Arizona, Land of the simple people", anyway, would be legislators would make it were their government would only conduct business in "English" so that all would be non-english speaking folks would feel unwanted and I guess- just what?-leave? I dont know, they never rationalized the benefits of limited education. They feel that if their kids only learn English they wont be confused by other academics, like math, science, hunting illegals, or having to learn a foreign language. What does a slave need to know anyway, except how to follow orders- saby? Now lets review the actual "ENGLISH LANGUAGE" take out all foreign words and how thin is Websters' delightful creation? I guess no more Texas- now you will refer to my home state as "Friends", no more taco, I guess it's just meat in a tortilla, oh no- meat is not english, I guess it will be called flesh in a biscuit, oh no, I cant seem to find much words to define my world, that is solely "English". I guess I'll have to leave my country or take up Shakespear,
My mistres' eyes are nothing like the sun, coral is far more red ath her lips red; If snow be white why then her breast are dun; If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head; I have seen roses demaked red and white, but no such colors see I in her cheeks, and in some perfumes is there more delight than from in the breath than from my mistress reeks?, I love to hear her speak, yet well I know that music hath a far more pleasing sound; I grant I never saw a goddess go, My mistress when walks treads on the ground. And yet by heavens I think my love as rare, as any she belied with fasle compare.
I guess "English" could be worth something- I guess if I go back to school and forget everything I learned to date, I might forget that the more educated I am the less they can manipulate me. By the way, when I was in Germany, the average person spoke 4 languages- and that was the dumb ones- the smart ones could speak up to 14- those simple people (in Arizona), just lack broader horizons- but then again it is just probably the lack of oxygen-from the high altitude, combined with the sun- you know- poor things!

-V-

05/11/05, 12:27 am

gratelady1

05/12/05, 10:38 pm

Ok, -V-- you win, I wont argue your status as a simpleton from AZ. But To think that you need breaks between paragraphs, to better try to break down all the thought processes that you cant seem to follow altogether, re-enforces your claim to be a simpleton. I dont believe anything- I know!- that if you want other cultures "To get "with it" or more appropiately, follow along with your beliefs, then you will have to stop being so arrogant and accept that you have to respect them and either teach them your language (Pay for their education), or learn their language (which will still cost you). And if you think that those "Forms" are just for illegals or foreigners, your wrong, many felt it was better to pay for "some forms", versus paying for the un-educated to to go to major universities to try and learn the advanced language found on "those forms". And good folks like you get suckered all the time into spending good money on all kinds of reform, to try and make things more simple, less expensive and I guess morally right. But then again, the only reason for "those forms" is to make it more difficult- "For Them" so "They", wont be able to easily share in the fruits of this land. But if you made things all electronic, their would be no forms, we would not need to kill any trees and make those printing companies rich. Ok, you sold me- no more forms- in any language. Lets agree to progress! From now on we will pay for all ignorants to get educated, so they can learn to do as we are doing now, and we will pay so everyone will have a PC or laptop, whatever, and if you cant learn, because you cant hear or see, or lack mental cognitive abilities, your butt is out of here! Yes, I love this new eutopia (Da Furer would be so proud), no ignorant people speaking languages I cant understand, and to prove your patriotism, you must speak -V-s' "English" (what ever that is) and I can drop my Spanish II class I was going to take this summer and we can tell the world "If you cant speak "English" your a rotten egg! and you are one of "Them" and thus an Undesirable and you are just slowing down U.S. progress and costing us. By the way whats this about China and South America, and how the Chinese are finally learning how to respect those folks and doing what ever it takes to get them to sell them all their raw materials, basically leaving us to pay even higher prices? Oh what the hell, we dont need to deal with foreigners- we are "Americans" the greatest and best "English speaking country in the world, hell, we even beat out the Brits, cause we have added 20,000 words to their language.

gratelady1

05/12/05, 10:40 pm

And by the way, please research how much of the internet is in "English"- your in for a shock.

-V-

05/13/05, 02:32 am

I was a little hard on you just to stir things up a little. Your writing style (or lack there of) is your perogative. But I promise more people would read and enjoy your posts if they were a little more organized and succinct.

Regarding the language issue. Which languages do you wan't forms, documents, street signs, automated messages, etc.. translated into and what is your justification for stopping there?

gratelady1

05/13/05, 05:46 am

-V-, I said I dont want any forms- period, or anything translated, that can not be done automatically, on XP, as we can easily here on this board. There is no need. If your problem lies with spending money to attract, or make it simple to do business with a more expanded clientele base (This is accomplished by respecting the fact others are not like you, or dont have your communication abilities and thus simply done by promoting or explaining your business in their language or capabilities- brail for blind, spanish for spanish speakers) then go ahead and save your promotional dollars, go ahead and seal your borders, go ahead and live in a closed society, and disrespect the goings on in your world. This is a great nation, we dont need to be able to communicate effectively with all cultures, both locally and abroad. We dont need to "talk down" the forms, for those that dont have the education to understand them "In whatever language". Lets keep the ignorant out of business altogether. Heck, if they are not intelligent enough- do we really want them voting, driving cars on the road, buying our goods, working for us and taking care of our kids? Nope, lets just have a national exam that everyone has to pass, and if they dont, we will deport them- now how is that for pregression?

gratelady1

05/13/05, 08:08 am

were a little more organized and succinct.

Regarding the language issue. Which languages do you wan't forms, documents, street signs, automated messages, etc.. translated into and what is your justification for stopping there?

First, I would like to apologize for my complete lack of communication skills and my faulty "English". Also I am sorry for my inability to write in an organized and succinct fashion (I am not worthy), because I realize that for anyone to understand my stupid opinions, I have to be able encode them in such a way that they can be uncoded by anyone.

I realize you are right -V-, I have to justify, if not qualify the importance of duplication and translation of information that we all belief is the reciever's responsibilty to be able to decode, not the sender.

But allow me to define the different elements of the constructs you decided to group together for the purpose of simplification (if not just poisoning the well).

If I was pepsi-co Corp. and I hired you as VP of marketing, and gave you 150 million dollars for a budget (read their annual report), to attempt to increase sales, how would you use that money- Understand that I- as your boss, have to justify it to the Board, and thus the shareholders- my bosses. First, would you waste that money advertising to pepsi-drinkers, or would you attempt to advertise to an entirely new clientele base? Would you sign Jordan to sell pepsi to the younsters who are already drinking pepsi? How would you know who was drinking pepsi and who was not? Would this not just make for more expense, and a circular problem?

Lets make some general conclusions, If you like something now, the law of averages is going to side with the fact that- just because you waste 2 million dollars a year to get your favorite celeb to push your product, it is not going to effect sells enough to warrant the expense. Also lets assume that people living and existing here in the U.S. and more specifically in Arizona, can understand what it is you want and what is right and wrong and what is needed to get their drivers liciences- I can argue they they are here and somehow they are surviving- despite whether they can speak "English" or not.

Lets push this to the more general population in Arizona- Lets say that you realize your dream and "English" (which you have yet to define) is now the official language of Arizona, and all government and private companies and agencies etc. must promote this new policy, assuming everyone knows all the laws and all the street names and all the businesses and whos the best, and whom the best candidates are, and which policies and resolutions to vote for, I guess we dont need to spend any money preaching to the choir-right?

So now we are in your perfect eutopia and now we have a national exam everyone must pass to be a Arizona citizen, my question to you is how are you going to do the following:
A) Let those that dont undertsand your "English" know they have to come in and take the exam.
B) If you find a way to get them to understand they have to come in and take the exam without translating- once they did come in and failed your exam, how will they be rounded up and gotten rid of?
C) Who is going to set the standards for what is considered enough of a proficiency in "English"- in other words, if I have to waste a lot of paper, going through long explanations like this, and have to break up paragraphs, and be more succinct, would that not indicate that anyone who needs more succinctness is lacking and thus he is costing us more paper, and then should he not be excluded also?

Ok, still not convinced I dont know what I am talking about?
Hitler, Milosovitz, Musolini, Stalin, Lennin, Fidel- they all wanted what you want- elitess separation of classes, where only those like us and who can communicate effectively with us are allowed. So how do we achieve this, we make policies that separate and define each other as different, by abilities, education, wealth or skin color. We classify them versus us. We continue till we have achieved the perfect race and world, were noone can make us any less that what we are guaranteed to achieve.

We should burn the statue of liberty and crumble the words that are inscribed there- for we dont want the wretched, the weak, the poor, the unable to speak "English" masses. For now the Nazis, the facist, the communist and the separatists, have won- we are only free to speak "English".

gratelady1

05/13/05, 08:22 am

I don't want parents in the U.S. to be lazy with their kids and limit their opportunities by not raising them to speak English and I don't believe it is too much to ask that immigrants be able to communicate in the native tongue to acquire citizenship.

:eek:

And by the way my spouse is a naturalized citizen, and to be an immigrant, you must pass an "English" proficiency exam- though we were married, it was a sticking point on the "forms". And by the way, my spouse knows four languages; Tagalgo, "English", Spanish, Arabic- and I dont count the little of all European words we needed to know while there.

My point is that Arizona's Legislation to make "English" the official language of Arizona, has nothing to do with immigration- the above is what I submit as emperical evidence- can you deny these facts?

gratelady1

05/13/05, 09:00 am

I guess I am one of the "simple people" who live in AZ (for the past 14 years) because I support the English legislation. Do you believe that all government documents need to be printed in multiple languages and you should pay for it? If people like you had your way this site would be required to be translated and posted in Spanish. And why just Spanish? What about French, German, Italian, etc..
:

The real point of the legislation, is that you dont want certian folks to understand the ballots- admit it. The "White man" has gotten so bad at talking with what my dad called the "Double forked tongue" that when you guys draw up ballots, you want to do it in such a manner, that only the elite few can understand them and everyone else will be confused.

I use this example from Houston- Dan Patrick and his Repubs-neo-nazi associates are trying to pass legislation to what they claim is control propoerty tax. Proposedly, the county here, can level up to 10% dollar valuation on property for county, school, and other local district taxes. He and his circle of friends want the State legislators to pass a max of 3-5% instead of the 10% because of course being rich and afluent- and a radio-talk show host, he owns a KAzillion dollar property- and just recently found out the liabiltiy envolved- High property and shcool taxes. Go ahead continue to increase the vaule of your properties.

What they dont say is how they proposed it- the language is as follows-

"To make sure no government agency can unjustifiably overtax or unfairly tax a property due to its value, we propose a law to limit the annual valuation of property taxes to no more than 5% per fiscal year"

I will direct your attention to 3 points;
a) My property taxes have never increased over the last 15 years, because of the growth around our area- the difference has been met by the sheer additional volume of houses and improved properties to our area.
b) The original arguement was for 3%, and this got millions of local Houstonians on board- for fear they would have to pay up to 10%- which they never had to- But miracluosly all of the sudden many folks are seeing and providing proof (on his radio-talk show) that their rates have gone up as much as 300%, so this entire ploy was just built on fear mongering and accomplished through the great Conservative propoganda machine that many folks still choose to ignore.
c) Now that legislation is under way and everyone is on board with it, most democrats will loose to Repubs/Conservatives, and they will have the power and legal backing to raise the propoerty taxes up to 5% to justify all their fiscal expenses, (whether they need it or not) that they will able to campaign promise to their constituency.

I say that if we need to raise local funds due to GWB's squandering of federal funds that many local government used to count on-but no longer exist- (We are broke) we should do it now and make sure the blame goes to straight to the responsible party- The Repubs. And not change the laws. The current blame is not for who drew up the 10%, but who will not support the 5% cap, and many state legislators are against it but the Demos are the only ones being targeted.

In Arizona, you use the Border problem and the illegals as an excuse and scapegoat for everything, they are the ones costing us billions not the President! They are the ones costing us in social services, healthcare, and having to translate everything. Damn the illegals! Lets hang the immigrants!
The President has not squandered a single dime, all expenses under his watch were to secure the country from the dreaded "Terrorist".

-V-

05/13/05, 12:37 pm

brail for blind,

indeed, they have no other options.

spanish for spanish speakers...

OK, but what I keep asking is, why not then German for the German, French for the French, Italian for the Italian, etc.. If you are talking strictly electronic, fine that can be done. But that is not the essence of the legislation or your other arguments.

this is a great nation, we dont need to be able to communicate effectively with all cultures, both locally and abroad.

I am assuming this is sarcasm, but it can be hard to tell if you jump back and forth. My argument is exactly that the world does need to communicate and we should make an effort to get on the same page rather than perpetuate our communication blocks.

My message to the world is, pick a language. If it is not mine, I'll learn it and pay my share to have it taught in schools and adult education, OK?

And if me and a million Americans fly to Mars I hope they will be helpful, but I won't expect them to do all the Martian translations for me.

Thanks for the paragraph breaks. You always have a lot of valid points and terrific ideas, unfortunately, it is still too long and varied in topics for me to read through and comment on right now.

gratelady1

05/13/05, 02:47 pm

Ok, I am sorry about the childish sarcasm, but I will submit that your case is sound, if, you could only- please- for the love of all that is precious to human communication, would you please- define "English" for us uneducated folks.

And when you learn the aliens' language, you will find out- they have been talking to you all along- if only you would listen. But then again, it's all about respecting the difference in cultures (in the case of mars- remember who is the encoder and who is the decoder).

-V-

05/14/05, 01:19 am

the Worldnet Dictionary definition seems sufficient:

[n] an Indo-European language belonging to the West Germanic branch; the official language of Britain and the US and most of the Commonwealth countries

and, now, Arizona. All accents and slang welcome.

And when you learn the aliens' language, you will find out- they have been talking to you all along- if only you would listen.

profound indeed, however, the language of love cannot tell you which number to press for technical support and your heart will not direct you to 235 W. Main St.

gratelady1

05/14/05, 02:38 pm

-V-, it is interesting that you had to look up the definition to the English Language. I do apprecaite the lookup though, but really just wanted your own definition, not a simplified- non-credible version. I can only conclude that you believe- that a shaved down version of something that to date has not been completely or accurately defined is "Sufficient". Remember, one simple fact, that English (if you follow Webster) is still evolving, the fact that you found this definition on-line does not mean it is an adequate legal definition in a court of law.

On the other hand, if we accept your submitted definition, I have to assume that Arizona is well on it's way to having an "Official language", since defining it is half your problem, now maybe you can all get some things done- I doubt it.

gratelady1

05/14/05, 02:47 pm

profound indeed, however, the language of love cannot tell you which number to press for technical support and your heart will not direct you to 235 W. Main St.

I guess you just cant get pass the fact, that entities outside your immediate micro-universe, really dont give a ____________ about your earthly- problems, constructs, desires and other cognitive short-comings. I thought humans could someday, open their minds beyond their own reality and accept outsiders for and as their micro-universe exist. But I guess the only way CONTACT will ever take place is if we share common elements of each micor-universes.

gratelady1

05/15/05, 10:31 am

I was a little hard on you just to stir things up a little. Regarding the language issue. Which languages do you wan't forms, documents, street signs, automated messages, etc.. translated into and what is your justification for stopping there?

-V-, I was just looking up a word in my dictionary and had a miraculous insight, I had previously argued "that "English" was yet to be defined, and that it was evolving". I could only argue as best as I could, with the limited intelligence- provided me by this rock. I wondered where such an idea might come from- we all should basically know what "English" is, beyond any proposed dictionary definition. But, when I closed my dictionary, it was there before my eyes.

A few years ago, when I began my formal (and final) educational matriculation, at the university I now attend, I realized that the dictionary on my Laptop, and the little pocket dictionary, were just not helping me with the more advanced dialogues I found myself a part of, so I decided to get a more advanced version of Webster's dictionary. I settled for the 2002 Merriam-Webster, incorporated- "Webster's Universal Encyclopedic Dictionary" published by Barnes and Noble. "It has 330,000 words and defintions, and over 1000 illustrations, hundreds of word history, usage, and synonym paragraphs, and mainly, a New words section that includes latest additions to the language." (all on the cover)

My point, The title itself, is my evidence to support my arguements- in total.
The publishers, creators, all involved, decided not to name this important tome "The English Dictionary"- English is nowhere to be found on the outside front cover. Why? We could be lead to conclude- that you were supposed to assmue that it was "English"- what type of "English" was irrelevent. I can only speculate that they would see the limitiations of just calling it a reference for only "English" (as supposed by some folks). In my previous posts, I resounded pretty much that conclusion, as more an arguement, why the need for an "Official" language seemed, well- simple. It did not reflect the inference to the sheer possiblities that all humans are capable of, much less those of Arizonians.

If you could tolerate, me for just a little longer, let me explain-

The definition in the dictionary I bought back then, for "English" is there for everyone to enjoy, it has expanses on it and basically says or leads one to conclude that it derived from English/British language, and this itself is not in contention, and not even do I contend as to who we want to give credit, but instead, how and why it works for you. "English" has evolved into an all inclusive- not exclusive language, to define it as your implementation would attempt (make it your official language), would be silly- if not just counter to it's evolution.

May I suggest that you go take this version of Webster's to your legislators- since you good folks need an official language- for what ever reason? And tell them instead- that you want your official language to be named "The Arizonian Language", or "TAL" for short, and when asked to define it- simply pass them the book and say professionally, if not scienticifically, that it is your new respectful, all inclusive, language based on the "Encylopedic" model of language, which uses the revered W.U.E.D. as its base, wish is based on the concept of "all knowledge and education of all subjects". This will help you get it passed and in the end help dispell beliefs like mine that, you are not trying to use this as a segragationist political, propogandistic tool to undermine and persecute Aliens, Mexicans, incapable folks or anyone else who suffers from lack of equal intelligence to you.

You could actually be the fore-bearer, if not the latest champion of the "New World Language" and "The New World Order", and to think legalized in the "Land of the simple people". You guys are so contemporary!

Your WELCOME :D

MAGI

05/15/05, 03:03 pm

:confused: Wow! What is behind your reasoning gratelady?

I have been hesitant to get into this conversation but it is really bothering me!
Would you please refer me back to a, or some. threads that could help me relate to your feelings?
Maybe some insight on this could help me understand why you are so hostile towards AZ., the english language, and -V- 1.

Arizona IS, (without a doubt) VERY interesting........for sure!

Every phase of beautifull to ugly for sure.
The whole picture of high intelligence to absolute ignorance...for sure.
Very wealthy to the poorest of the poor.
The most greedy....to the most soulful ....of man is there.

Yes it is brilliant in every sense of the word (for instance, Sedona) but ....can't think of the exact opposite word I'd like .. and on the dictionary page looking for lack- luster found the word lacuna. Meaning blank space:, small pit or hollow ...... lot's of them there...

I guess all of us may say they find these things also in their home state as well........

gratelady1

05/15/05, 04:00 pm

Oh worthy MAGI, please dont take anything I may point out as hostile, for how could I be hostile to someone I dont even know- and as for Arizona- well, you have to admit, your own testimonial, left all to be desired of the place. But please keep it in context, that I dont live there and for a very good reason, nothing personal, just not my cup of tea, so please excuse me, if I seem hostile, but it is not against a person or a place, but instead, to those that would rationale that, free loving, intelligent folks, would require something as simple as an official language, poor things, how do they survive without it? How has this country survived without one? Ah for two hundred years?

Mam36

05/15/05, 04:51 pm

Greatlady......new member here and I can not get into the chat site....what am I doing wrong??? or is it not operating at this time???
Thanks........Mam36

gratelady1

05/15/05, 04:56 pm

I dont know why you would not be able to get into the chat site, but I mainly stay on the boards, you can take your time and think about what you want to say and come back and put in a good response, versus talking out of emotion or something. Anyway what system are you running? And maybe -V- can help better than me as he is the founder.

Mam36

05/15/05, 05:00 pm

Thank you very much, greatlady....appreciate the info....

gratelady1

05/15/05, 09:22 pm

Mam, I went into the chat rooms, but noone was there, I just down scrowled the arrow to the right and chose which room I wanted to be in, they are nice and seem to be working fine, but empty. I like the forums better, like I said they seem to provide for more leisure responses. I check the forum boards about 3-4 times a day, and try to keep up, and it seems to work for me.

MAGI

05/16/05, 01:43 pm

Thank you for telling me of you backgroud, gratelady. It helps some.
After 2 years of Latin in High school, it was a relief to take Spanish for 2 years. I loved it and test it as often as I can. My children and theirs have studied Spanish. My town offers it early on. In grade 4 I believe. I absolutely think it is wonderfull to know other languages!!! It is really unfortunate your father didn't give you the advantage of learning his native language, but am proud of him for seeing to it that you were ready to learn in the language taught in the country you presently lived.

We went to a pizza eatery in a town nearby yesterday. It is about our 4th time there since the ownership changed hands. It was owned formerly by people of Greek origin. I am always fasinated when I hear people speaking a foreign language and try to guess from wence they came. Since reading of people feeling offended if asked, I am now reluctant to do so.

Two young men and a woman were working there yesterday. I have seen the young woman and wondered what nationality she is. She speaks ....United Statesian.......????? with an accent like someone of Polish or Russian nationality I thought. My husband guessed Greek.

Because they were speaking in their native tongue and were very polite people, I risked it. She enjoyed discussing it with us. It was Albanian. She told us she knew some of about 4 other languages. I expressed my delight and told her I was not so fortunate and wished I was as smart as she. She told us it is pretty common and even necessary because other countries surround Albania and everone travels. She was pleased to learn our language and is a proud owner of her own business. She mentioned Greece, Romania, and 2 other countries Albania borders....can't remember.....and don't have Atlas info at hand.

My daughter also works in a hospital here.

We are a nation of ALL. I am German/Irish/American Indian. My husband English/Irish/French/American Indian. My siblings married people with other heritage. Call it what we will.... it is necessary to understand one common language here. So I'm hoping you understand the necessity of it and understand that AZ. isn't out of line on this issue.

gratelady1

05/16/05, 03:04 pm

I agree that we should be open to learning other languages, and I repsect your opinion about the fact the we shloud all speak a common single language, but the reality for the purpose of doing so, with reguards to business with government and other agencies is flawed.

Have you heard of the "Nuremburg Laws"? These were the original documents ordered and signed by Adolph Hitler, which spelled out the end for Jews in and around his Germany. It started out as simple- They should do this, be identified as that, labeled like this and dealt with like that. But by the time it was over, millions of Jews were dead. This danger of "trying to control speech, and trying to find ways to define others as lacking or different, due to lack of certain skills, or certain papers, was the main foundation for fighting Nazi ideals. We want to be free, now if you dont understand this language or that, cant pass this test or that, then you will first, be labeled, and then dealt with, next you will be governed, next what?

It always starts with a simple idea, but I argued that it would be cheaper to print those documents in whatever laguages (translated), then to teach those that cant speak our language (how many classes, how many years, how much does that cost- times the 34 million aliens who have crossed over our borders? They are here now and unless you intend to do a house to house search (via Nazi SS style) to rid ourselves of them, how else are we to deal with this problem of getting them to understand us? I say that this whole issue is designed and constantly being addressed, because it is much easier to go after "Illegals", then to hang our own President. For some reason now that every local government agency is strapped for cash, everyone is trying to find a common rationale- a scapegoat, for blaming for lack of Federal Government funds.

I am not against education just that it cost more than running a simple software and printing out- as needed, the documents translated for the required concern, but I get roused when we start to regulate speech and freedom of speech and when the "MOB" mentality is used in a propogandistic way to go after a specific demographic. If the need for an "official language is real and important, why does it have to be "English"? If I argued successfully that doing so for the purpose of saving money was flawed, then why pursue it any furthur?

If I will fight for something it is "Freedom"

It may seem as a simple, "lets find a way to save money by not having to print the same document in how many languages", but then next thing you know, the divide and conquer, attitude is well institutionalized.

I have always said it is rude for foreigners to come from all over, here to Texas (Heaven) and not learn to speak the "Native Language"-
Caddo Spanish.

MAGI

05/16/05, 06:09 pm

The Jewish people spoke the language of the countries in which they lived. Pretty much everywhere on this earth I believe. When our countrymen of different nationalies arrived in North America, they pretty much grouped together in parts of the city...country. They then learned the common language. WE had to. I don't believe WE shunned US because, for the most part WE merged. We had to for our own sake. We had ...have religious schools but the language students speak as soon as possible is English. In the northeast we have all nationalities. There is a small minority who decided to segregate themselves....( but their children did not)........it is their loss and a small world in which they choose to live. CT. has Spanish people from all the Spanish speaking countries ......they melted in ...just like the rest of us.

We recently had a scandal of a Duncan Donut franchise owner of 10 area stores. He advertized in Portugal for his help. They came..2 were store managers. Of course their help were also Portugese. The owner used them .....long hours.....little pay and got away with it because they were illegal! The outrage here is at the employer and he will be prosecuted.
The workers are happy their managers turned him in. They had quite enough and wanted to go back to their own country because they were so exploited!

With ALL the nationalities in this country it is impossible to teach all of them in their native language! It is absolutely necessary to learn our common language whatever anyone calls it. I do not believe anyone is denied a test, or whatever, if it is necessary in this country. If that is the case anywhere in OUR country it is illegal, is it not?

I contend if employers do not hire ILLEGAL ALIENS they would not come. If they are needed pay them..legally....and fairly.....pay them a livable wage with decent hours and benefits, which by the way, is exactly what I'd like to see for U.S. citizens as well.
It is the duty of OUR government .....to enforce OUR law..........very simply solved!

MAGI

05/17/05, 10:46 am

It's Dunkin Donuts........neo cons............ect., ect. I tried to make corrections, don't know how after the edit on the first read is gone.

Anyway, after reading today's Hartford Courant I have lots to write to support my position.

Can't, I've got to put in the plants I received on commercial Mother's Day.

Anyway what it all boils down to is: I love OUR country.......Land of the Free. I work to keep it that way in my own small way. I am a Patriot even though George and "the boys" say that is not so because I was and am so against the war in Iraq. I am proud of Old Glory .....most of the time.... and you know I respected those young people who burned a few flags to point out we were wrong continuing the Viet Nam War.

I respect other people having whatever religion they choose.......or NOT. But reserve the right to protest when I feel something is not quite right! I am thankfull I live in a country that allows my feelings and yours.

However, I KNOW that living in this country it is most necessary to have a common language. I believe this because in my own family there is a great difference of opinion. It is based on the facts one is willing to entertain, WHO presented those facts, how the brain perceived them...ect..... and if the facts were presented honestly....or NOT, the motive......

I MUST form MY own opinions based on what I see, hear, feel and chew on. The time I'm able to give to the research. ...........

I can securely do that if it is written and spoken and the presenter is someone I trust..................in the language I know. It must be first hand information and not deciphered by ANYONE else.

I don't care to take the word of a translater on T.V. (say Fox News for instance) and surely NOT one on the internent.........and come to a final conclusion!

I am never more astonished at hearing some opinions of something I just witnessed!!!!!

So.....I must KNOW EXACTLY what I see, hear and taste....in the only language I know well enough to contemplate.......WHATEVER to arrive at a decision! If anyone cares to challenge that I'm willing to listen.

As I told my children....Please remember me as one who has yet to read the final chapter.......as long as my brain is logically working and my body is able.

On a light note: I am going to plant the herbs and flowers and HOPE I can get onto better thoughts...like the picture of the 2 2nd graders, one obviously of Oriental descent the other possibly of ...no, I cannot judge her descent or determine it by name (Archeta Rajagopalan), embracing a senior citizen pen pal: Anna Bermudez. See page one Tuesday, May 17, 05, Conneticut section. Hope you can get this paper. You'll see how close life touches us all ..no matter where we live on our beautifull Earth. www.COURANT.COM

gratelady1

05/18/05, 01:45 pm

Anyway, after reading today's Hartford Courant I have lots to write to support my position.
Anyway what it all boils down to is: I love OUR country.......Land of the Free. I work to keep it that way in my own small way. I am a Patriot even though George and "the boys" say that is not so because I was and am so against the war in Iraq. I am proud of Old Glory .....most of the time.... and you know I respected those young people who burned a few flags to point out we were wrong continuing the Viet Nam War.

However, I KNOW that living in this country it is most necessary to have a common language. I believe this because in my own family there is a great difference of opinion. It is based on the facts one is willing to entertain, WHO presented those facts, how the brain perceived them...ect..... and if the facts were presented honestly....or NOT, the motive......

I MUST form MY own opinions based on what I see, hear, feel and chew on. The time I'm able to give to the research. ...........

I can securely do that if it is written and spoken and the presenter is someone I trust..................in the language I know. It must be first hand information and not deciphered by ANYONE else.

I don't care to take the word of a translater on T.V. (say Fox News for instance) and surely NOT one on the internent.........and come to a final conclusion!

I am never more astonished at hearing some opinions of something I just witnessed!!!!!

So.....I must KNOW EXACTLY what I see, hear and taste....in the only language I know well enough to contemplate.......WHATEVER to arrive at a decision! If anyone cares to challenge that I'm willing to listen.

As I told my children....Please remember me as one who has yet to read the final chapter.......as long as my brain is logically working and my body is able.

I am not quite your I know what your position is;
Are you in favor of regulating speech?
Do want to save money by spending money?
Is it your point, that we should gather everyone that cant undertsand "English" and send them to school to teach them, or just get rid of them?

I argue plainly and simply, that "just to pass a law to have an official language" is just dumb and uncalled for. I have given my side of the arguement plain and clear, with all the examples I could muster.

I know that there is no way we can regulate those that dont belong here, and yet are here, which conservative numbers say is about 34 million.

Now, when you take in to consideration that there are millions of legal U.S. citizens that cant even read and write, much less talk "English" beyond 3rd grade level, what are we to do with those millions of lacking folks?

MAGI

05/18/05, 04:35 pm

I am not quite your I know what your position is;
Are you in favor of regulating speech? QUOTE}

I am very clearly saying , I believe, that in order to exist, never mind going beyond that..........a person MUST communicate in the language of the country he/she intends to live in! OUR country evidently provides that and goes way out of it's way putting information in....... Spanish . I don't see that information published in ALL the other languages. Are YOU saying that my new Albanian friends need their language on the other side of..... you name it...? How far do we go? Are you saying you know some child is not getting educated because it is not presented in the language they know? If so, tell us about it. If a person wishes to survive and rise to the level they desire, this county offers that opportunity. For some it is harder than others ......for many reasons.... YES, I say it is necessary to regulate speech, because it is impossible to publish each book, form, newspaper, TV program, ect. in every language and I will not discriminate against any nationality. My ancesters did it as did your father and I am gratefull they did.

Quote{ want to save money by spending money?}

???????????

QUOTE {Is it your point, that we should gather everyone that cant undertsand "English" and send them to school to teach them, or just get rid of them? QUPTE}

I clearly stated the opportunity IS there. It is mandatory ALL children attend school here...... Again, can you tell me of instances they are NOT provided instruction in English, yes English..not Shakespearian English...not hip hop or pidgin English, or caddo (?) please explain that. I Have stayed in Texas a few times. Traveled most of it as far south as Harligen, Progresso, Mission, El Paso even Big Bend. Traveled all of rtes 10, 20 and 30, East to West. I loved San Antonio...the Market Place esp. the happiness of the Majarchi (Spelling ?bands). I had no prolems ...anywhere.... So what's your point? MY point IS: In this country everyone counts and the opportunity is here for the taking......FREE of charge. We have English classes for anyone who wishes to take advantage of them. Refer to a specific quote where I say "get rid of them". I am telling you over & over how ...We ALL came here from EVERY land on earth and ALL have equal opportunity.....and we have the right to learn our common language and grow....... or NOT!

QUOTE {I argue plainly and simply, that "just to pass a law to have an official language" is just dumb and uncalled for. I have given my side of the arguement plain and clear, with all the examples I could muster.QUOTE }

Perhaps, it must be necessary, because there is a call to produce everything in.......Spanish? Why not Albanian?

QUOTE {I know that there is no way we can regulate those that dont belong here, and yet are here, which conservative numbers say is about 34 million.

Now, when you take in to consideration that there are millions of legal U.S. citizens that cant even read and write, much less talk "English" beyond 3rd grade level, what are we to do with those millions of lacking folks?

I say that everyone has the opportunity in this Great country to learn if they wish. That is each persons choice. It is my duty to continue to fight for that right in this country & I do it with every fiber ...fibre of my being.

gratelady1

05/18/05, 09:16 pm

I say that everyone has the opportunity in this Great country to learn if they wish. That is each persons choice. It is my duty to continue to fight for that right in this country & I do it with every fiber ...fibre of my being.

Yes everyone has the opportunity if they wish, but you are not addressing what you will do with the folks that dont want to, or cant learn.

Also, Caddo-Spanish was the original Mestizo language spoken here and other parts of the southwest, when and around the time Texas (Friends)was named. Also other words like Alamo (Cottonwood). It has all but disappeared first due to the "Mexicans", then the "Texicans", now the "Whichtheycouldbecans".

Also anything can be translated electronically and over the internet, in this new electronic age, only backward thinking people, would look at printing out forms (aka- the 20 century bureaucrat way). Progressives should be looking to advance new technologies and their implementation, and stop killing trees and looking for old issues to divide and splinter their in-groups. Like I said this issue of passing policies that are obsolete- cant be justified. Everyone should be able to speak what they want. And if some agency wants to come to my ranch and do business with me, they better take into consideration what I speak and respect the same, or I will just choose to ignore them also, and do business with someone else.

I recent that anyone believes that we should be expanding the role of government to say what will be printed in what language. I pay taxes to have my government serve me, not the other way around. Go ahead give them more power over you, Rick Perry would love to come to my Ranch and take everything, solely because I cant speak his lingo.

MAGI

05/18/05, 11:34 pm

Yes everyone has the opportunity if they wish, but you are not addressing what you will do with the folks that dont want to, or cant learn.

Also, Caddo-Spanish was the original Mestizo language spoken here and other parts of the southwest, when and around the time Texas (Friends)was named. Also other words like Alamo (Cottonwood). It has all but disappeared first due to the "Mexicans", then the "Texicans", now the "Whichtheycouldbecans".

Also anything can be translated electronically and over the internet, in this new electronic age, only backward thinking people, would look at printing out forms (aka- the 20 century bureaucrat way). Progressives should be looking to advance new technologies and their implementation, and stop killing trees and looking for old issues to divide and splinter their in-groups. Like I said this issue of passing policies that are obsolete- cant be justified. Everyone should be able to speak what they want. And if some agency wants to come to my ranch and do business with me, they better take into consideration what I speak and respect the same, or I will just choose to ignore them also, and do business with someone else.

I recent that anyone believes that we should be expanding the role of government to say what will be printed in what language. I pay taxes to have my government serve me, not the other way around. Go ahead give them more power over you, Rick Perry would love to come to my Ranch and take everything, solely because I cant speak his lingo.

Speak whatever language you choose.... take advantage of what our education system offers.......or NOT! Deal with whom you choose...that is YOUR choice! If it affords you what you wish, it's fine with me.

If you were born without the ability to learn, is quite another story. There are many possibilities there .......I'll let you think that out. I'm unwilling to go there.

Again.....there IS evidently a problem in Arizona and our democratic society will more than likely solve it!

Sorry, government and law are very necessary in a civilized society and unfortunately we must pay the price.

Who, may I ask, is going to program that electronically translated (by who?)information ??? Hmmmmm .......the elite electronic society? uh...... Now there's a choice for you.

gratelady1

05/19/05, 08:20 am

Speak whatever language you choose.... take advantage of what our education system offers.......or NOT! Deal with whom you choose...that is YOUR choice! If it affords you what you wish, it's fine with me.

If you were born without the ability to learn, is quite another story. There are many possibilities there .......I'll let you think that out. I'm unwilling to go there.

Again.....there IS evidently a problem in Arizona and our democratic society will more than likely solve it!

Sorry, government and law are very necessary in a civilized society and unfortunately we must pay the price.

Who, may I ask, is going to program that electronically translated (by who?)information ??? Hmmmmm .......the elite electronic society? uh...... Now there's a choice for you.

You tend not to want to commit to a direct answer for many of the questions posed, but that is Ok, if all you want is to try and stay politically correct or popular. Most of your comments seem to be vague, and defensive, not clear and commital.

Most MS software operating sytems already have language translaters built into the system, not many folks know how to use the tool (usually found- like for instance, in "MS Word" under the "Tool" button), or actually try communicating with foreign individuals around the wolrd via the internet. And there are multiple sites avaiable that will translate any form or documents- rather quickly and accurately- for a small fee. But like I said no expense is met, save for the individual who needs a translation- but "to order" and "per specific case"- no government envolvment, no public expense.

And your wrong about laws and society. As an accused societal engineer, I must say that no law should be passed that can not be enforced, rather silly dont you think? And there is nothing civilized about dictating to others what they should say and how they should say it. It is just plain rude- thus why many idealistic ideas such as "An Official Language" is plain ridiculous.

I ask again, have you heard of the "Nuremberg Laws"?
Ever heard of Hitler? and other Idealistic dictators like GWB? They want to control, speech, thought, language, what type of underwear you slip on, and how your supposed to do it, all proposed in the name of "Freedom", and to make a "civilized society". Their definition for "civilized" is you bend over and we will civically give it to you".

MAGI

05/19/05, 08:52 am

strange.....I find your thinking very confusing and without complete thought.......

Anyay we have the choice and right to express those thoughts and vote the way we choose based on the facts we choose to accept, and the right to education in the language of your choice in this country. How you use that information, if you are willing to entertain all the facts on subjects dear to you, is STILL your choice.

I give my chosen representatives my opinion on relative subjects when necessary, and haven't been jailed or exported yet............. and will continue to do my part of being part of the polictical process of choosing candidates with the intellegence I feel is in correct for the good of society..... and the voting machine I use is uncompromised.

I'm not comententing furthur on the need for a common language, because it is useless with you. I have other more important things to do.......