[Dale I.]

I was a dues paying member of the green party until 9/11
I disagree with almost all of the the domestic policy of the Republican party, but I think international policy is more important. I spent the last election wishing Kerry would outline what he was going to do to fight terrorism....and I heard nothing.

I know a lot of "former" democratic and green voters who not only switched for the last election but could not talk about why with their freinds because of the rabid name calling. When you friends are saying anyone who could possible vote for bush is a nazi it's a little hard to talk..

Dale from the liberal bastion in madison wisconsin

[Michael DeM]

Like many Americans, you have been fooled into believing that Republicans are strong on defense and international issues. Liberal Democrats(and Greens) realize the necessity to fight terrorism at its roots rather than simply retaliating with violent force. All Bush and his neocons have done is use military means to fight terrorists without doing anything to prevent the next generation of terrorists. In addition to that, he's distracted our focus away from terrorism with his war in Iraq. That ,in a nutshell, is why you should never vote republican again.

[gratelady1]

Why would a free nation- free from international politics (for example Mexico), have any fear from terrorist? You seem to misunderstand or be ignorant of the Corporate world and globalization. You must also not be able to grasp the relationship behind the Republican party and Corporate America- and it's relationship to control of the simple employee.

Let me take us down mememory lane- The Egyptians, when they saw how the Hebrews were over taking them, decided to tax everthing and make everything so expensive, that soon the Hebrews sold themselves into slavery- great for the Egyptians- it meant perpetual employees (slaves)- you probably know the rest about the Exodus- now fast forward to circa early- mid 20th century- How do the "rich" keep a "Democratic" nation, from voting that everyone should benefit from the wealth of the richest most properous land on this rock? It's called capitalism, and in theory everyone here, has equal opportunity- but its who you know and your relationship to them. The Republicans are basically using this with; over-taxation, inflation, sensless warring- to keep us- the poor, down and in perpetual slavery for decades to come, dont believe me? Where is all your annual income?, how much do you actually retain after- mortgages, auto, insurance, food, basic neccessities, and taxes, and fees, and cell phones and perpetual payments to the shrink to keep us from being able to see that we are not "Free"! Hell here in Texas, they have just voted to increase sells tax by another buck! But to help those with expensive mansions or homes, decided to reduce property school tax. who do you think that favors?

You dont have to vote Repubican, they will win despite you, they have bought their way to the top and are not going to chance thier fortune and political power to the "vote". If you amassed 200 billion dollars, would you give the basic peasant the chance to vote your money right out of your pocket?

They have bought and control all political parties and there is no hope for anyone-save Moses and God (And I think they would buy those also, if they could). If you want to make a difference accept defeat and kiss all the rich butt you can press your lips to and hope they throw you a bone, because unless you can part waters there is no "soon-to-come messiah" to free us of the corruption and institutions we have spent so many years developing to insure we will never be free- because thats why God made heaven- so you would look forward to your death and look forward to your 300 virgins-or what ever! If you stay alive you better be prepared to part some anatomical parts-buddy!

As for myself, I am taking Spanish II and when I can Habla well enough, I will refuse to give a damn about any terrorist, I will be free from all those issues GWB and the Republicans have brained washed me into thinking are important to keep the USA so free! Anyone got some pesos I can borrow? And how do you drink Takillya? What does "cabrito" taste like? Got una mas cebresa por favor senoirita? Man I think I am almost there! Hola muchachos! ARRIVA- or is it ARRIBA- I think my Span prof sucks!

[gratelady1]

I present as evidence, Mr. Rove!

[~Scuba-Steve~]

The only reason I can think of that you shouldn't vote republican is that you should vote libertarian instead, cause they are more socially liberal then the republicans.

greatlady1 has one thing right. I do believe that the wealthy of this country write the rules to benefit themselves, and don't bother teaching the poor, knowing they are mostly too dumb and lazy to learn on their own, and will continue to be the labor. I think you are foolish to think it is just the republicans though. You complain about taxes, but who always is trying to lower taxes, the republicans. You mentioned Texas. I don't know what the sales tax is like there, but I do know that the property taxes are about 3% and are among the highest in the nation. They may just be trying to be more like the democrate controlled CA, where property taxes are 1.25%, and can only go up 1% a year because of prop 13. Under this law there are people like my dad who have a beach house worth about 800k that he pays $500 a year in taxes for, while if I bought it I would pay about $8500 a year.

It seems to me that more "old money" tend to be more liberal (kenedy's) while new money tends to be conservative. Old money know they don't deserve the wealth they have, and feel guilty enough to adopt socialist ideology for sack of beign "socially correct" as people in high society need to be. People who were born poor, work hard, and became rich because of their success tend to be republican. They have little sympothy, or guilt because they were able to overcome all the obsticle that liberals complain about. Arnold Schwartaneggger,and Maria Scriber are a great example of this.

Replicans are not the Rich. They are the upper middle class working hard to get rich. The true wealthy are the old money who control the democratic party and pit the lazy in an imaginary class war against the hard working. I can give countless examples of this, but this post is getting long enough.

Just remember this: I don't recall republican enchouraging people to become slaves to corps, as much as they would prefer that everone start their own business and persue their own dreams. I do recall democrates who try to creat a dependant wealfare state for a throwing them a bones here or there to remain their loyal vote base.

If you think Mexico is so great then be my guest and move there. However the current migration pattern would disagree.

[gratelady1]

If you think Mexico is so great then be my guest and move there. However the current migration pattern would disagree.

Well you are echoeing many of my arguements, if not rightout elaborating, but I think anyone who believes the propoganda about the illegal immigration problem, should research where the imperical data for those annual reports come from- for instance, if you believe 1 million illegals come in per year, and that INS or immigration, ships back tens of thousand each year, thus supporting the estimates, I say you have to take the demographics of all Latin American countries into account, and since this has been going on for, lets say-the beginning of this country, then I argue noone would be left in any Latin American country, by this countries mathetical conclusions.

But about the issue of voting "Libretarian" I say how can you prove the Repubs, dont control that party or the Dems, or any proposed new party? What do you say about the fact that they are not about to put thier wealth and this country at risk to anyone or any populace?

[MAGI]

I encourage you to take the time to read this.......maybe this could be reason enough to convince you. "Those of Us Who Know That America's Worth Fighting for Have To Take It Back Now from Those Who Don't." by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. This is a speech he delivered at the Sierra Summit 2005 9/10/05

This is on today's BUZZFLASH News on the lower part of the main page.



http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views05/0916-27.htm

[snowdog]

Why convince you NOT to vote Republican? heck, the Republican party has their
act together. While I may not agree with everything the party does, at least they
are much more together and commited on their values. The Dems are looking
stupid again, I voted Democrate for 20 years, till the 2000 campaign. I may have
went Dems way with Sen. Lieberman running for Pres. But ALGORE? heck no.
as has been mentioned before, The huge Democratic base enjoyed by politicians was from the Roosevelt era, Those voters are basically dying, the New
trend in the Democratic Party has gotten away from its values that really did look
out for the people, Now this "progressive" philosophy focuses on "Gay Marriage"
issues (I believe Gays should be allowed to have a union....Not get married) Smearing
Republicans, they have forgotten what made their party strong. As long as there
are people like Howard Dean as the voice of the Democratic party, Republicans can
count on votes from the majority of Americans (according to the last elections). Hell,
more African-Americans are voting Republican now than before. The Dems are lost.

[gratelady1]

Why convince you NOT to vote Republican? heck, the Republican party has their
act together. While I may not agree with everything the party does, at least they
are much more together and commited on their values. The Dems are looking
stupid again, I voted Democrate for 20 years, till the 2000 campaign. I may have
went Dems way with Sen. Lieberman running for Pres. But ALGORE? heck no.
as has been mentioned before, The huge Democratic base enjoyed by politicians was from the Roosevelt era, Those voters are basically dying, the New
trend in the Democratic Party has gotten away from its values that really did look
out for the people, Now this "progressive" philosophy focuses on "Gay Marriage"
issues (I believe Gays should be allowed to have a union....Not get married) Smearing
Republicans, they have forgotten what made their party strong. As long as there
are people like Howard Dean as the voice of the Democratic party, Republicans can
count on votes from the majority of Americans (according to the last elections). Hell,
more African-Americans are voting Republican now than before. The Dems are lost.

I heard all this on the Rush Limbaugh radio show. To say that one must vote for one party because the other sucks, is paramount to saying one must pet the cute mutt because the other one is uglier. Why not shoot both mutts and get a snowcat?
More evidence of limited thinking.

[snowdog]

I heard all this on the Rush Limbaugh radio show. To say that one must vote for one party because the other sucks, is paramount to saying one must pet the cute mutt because the other one is uglier. Why not shoot both mutts and get a snowcat?
More evidence of limited thinking.

I quit listening to RUSH years ago following the Rodney King Incident.

[gratelady1]

I quit listening to RUSH years ago following the Rodney King Incident.

That's really interesting, I listen to him every chance I get, along with all other conservative shows, I can, it allows me to keep up with their perspective. In fact I follow conservative dialogue more then liberal dialogue. I believe everyone should study their enemies.

[snowdog]

That's really interesting, I listen to him every chance I get, along with all other conservative shows, I can, it allows me to keep up with their perspective. In fact I follow conservative dialogue more then liberal dialogue. I believe everyone should study their enemies.


LOL, gratelady1, maybe you never noticed, Rush is just entertainment, he
spouts out HIS views and opinions, as Hannity does, hummmm why...why
thats what you do.... how about that, you share alot in common with rush and
Shaun Hannity. :D Don't know who you listen to on the left, but I urge
you to watch/read more FACT-BASED media. then you could answer my Questions.

[gratelady1]

LOL, gratelady1, maybe you never noticed, Rush is just entertainment, he
spouts out HIS views and opinions, as Hannity does, hummmm why...why
thats what you do.... how about that, you share alot in common with rush and
Shaun Hannity. :D Don't know who you listen to on the left, but I urge
you to watch/read more FACT-BASED media. then you could answer my Questions.

I dont believe Rush, Hannity or any other "coordinated" conservative programs, lined up back to back on the radio, designed to brain-wash all simpletons into believing the common popular thing to do is vote and defend Bush at all cost- is just entertainment. They are a coordinated propoganda machine designed by Nazis- FASCIST and neo-cons to take and keep control of the simple people- and they are very good at what they do.

On going studies are showing that (if you listen to all of them back to back in a row, you can see this yourself) if you break down their programs they go as follows;
The first 20 minutes (aprox. 25% of on-air time) is spent self promoting and dialogue designed to draw in audiences and build up credibiltiy/ authority.

80% of the time is devoted strictly to defending GWB- either through specific content, or through interviews with selected high-profile guess, who will reflect their pre-biased views on the current admins's policies.

5% of the time is used for actual callers, who if you listen everyday, you realize are the same voices, and not just random callers. Each program has well trained screeners who test callers just to make sure the callers dont embarass the host, because the caller might actually be smarter, more concise, brilliant/faster or articulate then the host, and they are not about to chance that, due to 1 minute of articulate- intelligent arguement, will undue an hours worth of premises built on all the previous. Of the 5% callers that call in less than 5% of those are "Liberals-democrats, and these are screened to make sure that they are slow, and easly debunked.

Funny how you say it's just intertainment.

As far as the left- I dont listen to any of them- it would be like the choir listening to the preacher- everyday- when they are already saved- pointless- wouldn't you agree?

[snowdog]

Great points gratelady1. I'm beginning to understand your point of view.
I must say I agree with you on many of your points. :)
I hope you have a great day!

[gratelady1]

No one should VOTE Republican anymore, mostly due to the fact, that no one will be running under that ticket anymore, once GWB and Karl Rove are done with it, mainly because many repubs, have already made their money, now it will be thier job to keep it, and guess what- the bill wiLl need to be paid. I look at many of the rich and afleunt will do as Maddona has done and move to other countries, where thier existence will be mostly marginal and thier liabilities reduced. Bank accouints in Switzerland or Grand Cayman, beach houses on privately owned islands- you get the picture.

The main issue is who to vote for? We have contemporary Hacks like Neil Bortz who promotes a Libriterian approach, and I could easliy see a new party emerge- promoting traditional conservative views, and denounceing GWB's failures, and thus giving Repub dejects an avenue they will be convinced- they never thought of.

[snowdog]

No one should VOTE Republican anymore, mostly due to the fact, that no one will be running under that ticket anymore, once GWB and Karl Rove are done with it, mainly because many repubs, have already made their money, now it will be thier job to keep it, and guess what- the bill wiLl need to be paid. I look at many of the rich and afleunt will do as Maddona has done and move to other countries, where thier existence will be mostly marginal and thier liabilities reduced. Bank accouints in Switzerland or Grand Cayman, beach houses on privately owned islands- you get the picture.

The main issue is who to vote for? We have contemporary Hacks like Neil Bortz who promotes a Libriterian approach, and I could easliy see a new party emerge- promoting traditional conservative views, and denounceing GWB's failures, and thus giving Repub dejects an avenue they will be convinced- they never thought of.

And If the republicans continue to assert their power in US Govt. and Not
go overseas.........one can only assume that they truely want to make the
USA a better place to live.

[gratelady1]

And If the republicans continue to assert their power in US Govt. and Not
go overseas.........one can only assume that they truely want to make the
USA a better place to live.

My analysis is more like a prediction, more than a blind hope.

And is it now your admission- that the Repubs have been "asserting thier power", and why the U.S. is in the state it is in?
I wonder if you are going to vote Repub again?
You dont have to tell us if you dont want to.

[snowdog]

My analysis is more like a prediction, more than a blind hope.

And is it now your admission- that the Repubs have been "asserting thier power", and why the U.S. is in the state it is in?
I wonder if you are going to vote Repub again?
You dont have to tell us if you dont want to.

Umm again glady1 Do I need to quote you on you talking about the republicans
asserting their power? was it not you who said that Sen Byrd was controlled
by the republicans. Please glady think first. I keep trying to get you to
understand that.

as for who I will be voting for, while it is a private vote. I can only say
when I find out who is running, and I do my research I will vote for man or
woman, white or black or brown person who I think will best lead this
country/state/city-town. they could be Democrat, Green, rebuplican,
Independant, I came to this forum to learn about the progressive party
thinking perhaps the views will educate me. I am sorry to say at this point
due to the examples unbridled hate, uninformed views, and refusal to
listen to other points of view, I can guarentee that there will be NO progressive
party canidate that I could vote for. I can only imagine the platform. "I
Hate the Republican party".....So vote for me !! "look at my proof that GWB
doesn't care see the pic?" I kinda like to vote on the person who stands for
what I believe in. I can't vote for a person just because they hate the person
I may not like. I think that we all can realize the progressive party will not
be any threat to be elected in the next presidential elections anyways.

[gratelady1]

Umm again glady1 Do I need to quote you on you talking about the republicans
asserting their power? was it not you who said that Sen Byrd was controlled
by the republicans. Please glady think first. I keep trying to get you to
understand that.

as for who I will be voting for, while it is a private vote. I can only say
when I find out who is running, and I do my research I will vote for man or
woman, white or black or brown person who I think will best lead this
country/state/city-town. they could be Democrat, Green, rebuplican,
Independant, I came to this forum to learn about the progressive party
thinking perhaps the views will educate me. I am sorry to say at this point
due to the examples unbridled hate, uninformed views, and refusal to
listen to other points of view, I can guarentee that there will be NO progressive
party canidate that I could vote for. I can only imagine the platform. "I
Hate the Republican party".....So vote for me !! "look at my proof that GWB
doesn't care see the pic?" I kinda like to vote on the person who stands for
what I believe in. I can't vote for a person just because they hate the person
I may not like. I think that we all can realize the progressive party will not
be any threat to be elected in the next presidential elections anyways.

So you do admit that the country is in the condition it is in all because of the repubs- right?

[snowdog]

So you do admit that the country is in the condition it is in all because of the repubs- right?


How ever you feel you need to view it gratelady1 :)

[Adolph]

Why would a free nation- free from international politics (for example Mexico), have any fear from terrorist? You seem to misunderstand or be ignorant of the Corporate world and globalization.

Mexico is free from "international politics"??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Adolph]

Let me take us down mememory lane- The Egyptians, when they saw how the Hebrews were over taking them, decided to tax everthing and make everything so expensive, that soon the Hebrews sold themselves into slavery- great for the Egyptians- it meant perpetual employees (slaves)- you probably know the rest about the Exodus-

Yes, I do, or at least I thought I did. I would love to hear your version of it though. :D

[gratelady1]

Yes, I do, or at least I thought I did. I would love to hear your version of it though. :D

So, if you say you know the history, and you do not contest my inferences, then I am right on my conclusions- right!
Thank you for your support- all donations should be mailed to "c/o Hungry politicians, 987 Upyouralley, Crawford, Texas. 77069