[MAGI]

Thanks to Cindy, for standing TALL for her principles.........getting out the truth about this unjustified Iraq War.

We are, at last, also seeing the media get out the truth! I'm hoping it will continue...........

With hope, very soon, the Iraqis will rule Iraq. If they really want to move forward they can. If strong desire isn't there, they will reap havoc for years to come...but it will be THEIR choice!

It's past TIME for our troops to come home!


P.S. Thanks so much for the BuzzFlash, -V-.

[-V-]

Cindy is a disgrace, a liar

she is a mother who's son died for a lie and is simply trying to save more of America's sons and daughters from the same fate.

[-V-]

They are pissed that all these mouths are spouting off, and possibly endagering their loved ones even more 1. It is impossible for anything to endanger them more than them STAYING THERE! Bring them home. Support our troops -- bring them home.

2. If it was wrong to send them there (as the majority of America and the world agrees) it is wrong to keep them there.

3. Not one soldier who died or their family should want one more soldier to die, not for country, but for politician and pride.

4. If your reasoning is correct EVERY NATION EVER INVOLVED IN AN UNJUST WAR SHOULD KEEP THEIR SOLDIERS FIGHTING AND DYING IN THAT WAR FOR THE SOLDIERS THAT DIED BEFORE THEM and we'd still be etching out names on the Vietnam memorial wall.

5. As citizens, the most patriotic, compassionate, loving thing we can do for our soldiers is pressure our government to get them out of there and the most treasonous, dangerous, destructive, pig-headed, thing for us to do is continue to trust a deceitful leader with their lives and our money.

As far as the thoughts of soldiers some of the soldiers - just like us, some blindly support their President, some think he's an asshole. You can't get an unbiased read from soldiers anyway because their training demands that they blindly support their leaders.

I read the letter that you linked to and here's my answers to that soldier's questions regarding protestors:

"Do they have no shame? "
There is no shame in trying to save your life.

"Do they have no integrity?"
We honestly want to save your life.

"Do they have no heart?"
We love you. We want you home, safe and sound with the family that loves you. And we promise not to put your life on the line again in the future unless there truly is an imminent threat to our own lives.

[-V-]

My favorite part was hearing about all the bruises she recieved for being an anti- American, treasonous pig.

Pinball, your remark is an example of hate speech, endorsing violence against a peaceful protestor who happens to define patriotism different than you do. That shit doesn't fly here. Please read this forum's posting rules/policies.

Jane, bless her soul, keeps giving you the benefit of the doubt. But you extracting pleasure out of someone roughing up a greiving mother trying to prevent other parents from attending their children's funeral, is a clear indication to me of what is and isn't in your heart.

But it's not my place to judge what's in your heart. My place is to administrate a civil discussion forum. To that end, you are beginning to wear out the welcome.

[-V-]

if the US stopped tomorrow what would happen? Do you think everyone would just go their merry way and start loving Americans again?

they wouldn't start loving us, but they would start hating us less (I notice you said, "start loving us again". So you remember that it was only a few years ago that most of the world viewed us favorably)

Few people really believe U.S. enemies are "evil" and hate us for our "freedom". If our journalists would bother to ask, their answer would be that they hate us for interfering in their lives.

[-V-]

What exactly does "hate us less" mean? That they will only try to blow up 5 planes rather than 10?

10? 5? I'm talking human emotion and you're talking math?

The difference would be more akin to "I still don't like you but because you are no longer interfering in my life I'm not willing to murder you and destroy my own life in the process".

There is a huge gap between hate and murder. You may hate some people on this forum but you wouldn't consider crossing that line unless they broke into your house and blew up one of your family members.

[-V-]

-V-, like the rest of your party you base many of your emotions on theory. Yes, I hate, but no, I would kill myself for it. The problem is the enemy we are facing will do that. Not only will they do it, they will encourage their children to do it.

sdb, we are both talking theories. The difference is that your theory is regressive and can only perpetuate ignorance and violence. You propose that every war be fought on whichever is the lowest ethical level of either combatant e.g. If they kill women and children -- we do, if they torture -- we do, etc..

We didn't have to adopt Nazi tactics to beat Hitler and the whole world didn't have to become barbarians in order to defeat Ghengis Khan, etc..

Before this President took office, America had set some better standards for resolving conflicts, and as a result, were much less likely to be engaged in conflict. Remember how rare it was a few years ago that an American soldier was killed in battle. Remember how disturbing it was to the American public. Snap out of the trance your party has you under. Be disturbed again!

Resist the urge to become one of those barbarians you hate and, in time, those extremists on the other side of the world will become more like you instead of the reverse. And in the end there will be less blood on that road we both travel.

[-V-]

people are undermining this President and weakening the country. What is scary for me is that because of these actions the enemy is more emboldened

I'll tell you what is scary. People like you denouncing citizens who oppose the policies of their leaders because it may "embolden" the enemy. Does that mean you would never question or oppose Clinton regarding international conflicts. Or if you had lived in Iraq you would never have "undermined" Saddham (if you could get away with it)! And as a German you would have stuck with Hitler? Or the North Korean leader? Applying your logic, wars should never end because all citizens should steadfastly continue to support their country and leader "right or wrong".

If more people had adopted your philosophy America would still be under British rule today. You need to wake up to the fact that blind support of potentially misguided and corrupt leaders emboldens them to continue their abuse of power and undermines freedom and justice.

Now is a good time to go out and buy some guns!
Now is good time for you to go out and get a clue!

[Jane of Arc]

FDR you will get no apology from me. I don't care what generals or ambassadors have to say. Once again, people are undermining this President and weakening the country. What is scary for me is that because of these actions the enemy is more emboldened and Democrats, God forbid, get put into power have been weak on defense since day one. I want to know how they plan on protecting this country and my family? Answer, they don't and they are even worse at policy making than Bush.

This reminds me of Vietnam with a bunch of Hanoy Janes running around spouting their displeasure with this government and in turn destroying our future. Now is a good time to go out and buy some guns!!!!

Learn something. The reason the United States is under attack and not Sweden is because we are a global bully. We are. Sweden isn't. See the difference? With more military bases and controlling tentacles than all the other nations combined we make the Roman Empire look like a bunch of sissy-girls. We interfere with the business of just about every sovereign state on the planet. We select leaders. We back dictators. (like Sadam) We destroy elected Presidents. We control, privitize and break countries backs with the World Bank. We can maintain our global financial dominance with a dollar based on nothing and a crippling Bush national debt because of our bigs guns. So when it comes to securing energy, the very life-blood for our enormous military-industrial complex, we are ruthless aggressors. Sweden doesn't do these things. See the difference?

[-V-]

indeed jp and sdb, a common ground consensus. Let us all agree to punish the guilty at the polls and beyond, into prison cells in some cases. It is too late in Bill Clinton's case, though his wife can be punished.

Our political system and the performance of it's employees is
a fabrication, a sham, and a mockery. In a word, our government is a
FabaShamMockery

Let us agree to go after all the crooks in office now and to keep cleaning up regardless of party in the future. Let's have more issue debates and less defensive, ego driven, fighting for the dirty politicians who are not fighting for us!

Are you with us Magoo?

[Jane of Arc]

sdb ...

Try something. Try not thinking Republican vs. Democrat. Try not thinking left vs. right. Try not thinking Clinton vs. Bush.

Instead ... try thinking rich vs. middle class and poor. Who controls this country? Who benefits? Who's getting richer and who's getting poorer?

You bet the Democrats voted for this war and this war is a bad war. But, it's a money maker! The Democrats and Republicans are 2 sides of the same gold coin. With few exceptions, they are corrupt bedfellows. This war has got nothing to do with 'freedom' and everything to do with controlling oil and war profiteering.

Step outside the confines of labels and look at what's really happening.

I urge you to do some personal research on elections. You'll find our system is rotten to the core. And Congress has done didley squat to ensure American citizens receive a verifiable democratic vote. We have an electronic banking system in this country that works like a fine-tuned Swiss watch, but we can't figure out how to have verifiable voting with a paper trail? Please. Whether a Democrat or a Republican gets "elected" in 2008 without any electoral overhaul ... you can be pretty sure it's a fix. If Hillary Clinton gets elected ... you'll know it's a fix. Watch the pattern of the corporate media grooming her for the presidency. Why was she on the cover of Time magazine? For what? Doesn't a bell go off in your head? Don't you smell that foul smell? Isn't their something kind of wrong with a presidential line-up of Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton???

It's our patriotic duty according to our brilliant forefathers to petition our government with our grievances. The founders didn't want 'kings and queens", nor corporations running America, but We The People. Unchecked power and greed corrupts.

[JamesP]

Nothing unusual here and nothing intellectually honest...
same old blind eye to the enormous failures of the Bush administration (on matters of life & death) and empty rationalizations...
No willingness to hold the government accountable...
Same old political tribalism.

The "worst" administration. I don't buy that. It would be different if any Dem would come out with a "better" plan than what we currently have. The economy is strong and continually growing, inflation is in check, unemployment is lower than during the Clinton years.

Clinton is irrelevent to this discussion, but since the "Limbaugh people" can't leave him out of any discussion:
Whether you want to credit Clinton or not, the Clinton years were golden economically. He may just have been lucky, but the facts are the facts.
The Bush economy "gives more comfort to those already most comfortable" and leaves the rest behind..... and the public deficit keeps on climbing as more private wealth accrues to those already most wealthy.


....we are safer. The US has not been attacked and we continue to take out the terrorists and their leaders. I have admitted mistakes, but they are expected. The question is do you continue to make the same mistakes, or change your tactics so that it doesn't happen again.

Total fantasy entertained by only the most partisan.
Bush policies are designed to create countless more terrorists and keep the "war on terror" alive for decades.


Nobody likes war, but wars are how we gained our freedom.


Incorrect.... some like war..... because they profit from it.... and thus "stretch" to find reasons to justify the violence and human suffering to the gullible poor & middle class who must fight it for them.

This war, Iraq, is wrong, legally, morally and practically and it's motivations have nothing to do with "freedom".

It's not like bombing an empty asprin factory to disguise an affair in the Oval Office.

When leaders are not held accountable for gross errors and misdeeds, we are guaranteed more of the same. When military force is involved, oour leaders had better be right....or paythe price... Dem or Repub.