[MAGI]

Thanks to Cindy, for standing TALL for her principles.........getting out the truth about this unjustified Iraq War.

We are, at last, also seeing the media get out the truth! I'm hoping it will continue...........

With hope, very soon, the Iraqis will rule Iraq. If they really want to move forward they can. If strong desire isn't there, they will reap havoc for years to come...but it will be THEIR choice!

It's past TIME for our troops to come home!


P.S. Thanks so much for the BuzzFlash, -V-.

[LuvRPgrl]

Thanks to Cindy, for standing TALL for her principles.........getting out the truth about this unjustified Iraq War.

We are, at last, also seeing the media get out the truth! I'm hoping it will continue...........

With hope, very soon, the Iraqis will rule Iraq. If they really want to move forward they can. If strong desire isn't there, they will reap havoc for years to come...but it will be THEIR choice!

It's past TIME for our troops to come home!


P.S. Thanks so much for the BuzzFlash, -V-.

You "hope" the Iraqis will be able to rule Iraq soon, yet you want our troops home,,,yesterday...dont you realize its the troops that will allow the Iraqis to begin running their country? Even the Iraqi's acknowledge that.

Cindy is a disgrace, a liar, her husband is now divorcing her and the rest of the family has asked her to stop what she is doing and that they disagree with her, and that she is dishonoring her son.

[-V-]

Cindy is a disgrace, a liar

right :rolleyes:, and Kerry was a disgrace and a liar rather than a war hero, Gore said he invented the Internet, Hilary and Theresa are *****es, etc. etc....

the Republican smear machine needs some fresh material because I believe their act is wearing thin with the American public and that will be reflected in the polls when voters punish everyone who blindly kept supporting the biggest "disgrace and liar" who ever resided in the White House. George W Bush makes Richard M Nixon look like George Washington.

Shame on anyone who smears the mother of a son who gave his life for Bush's lie and is simply trying to save more of America's sons and daughters from the same fate.

Furthermore, I don't give a rat's ass about her family, whether she is a liar, or, for that matter, whether she is a serial killer -- she's not running for office. All that matters is that she is standing up for what is right and I'm standing with her.

[MAGI]

You "hope" the Iraqis will be able to rule Iraq soon, yet you want our troops home,,,yesterday...dont you realize its the troops that will allow the Iraqis to begin running their country? Even the Iraqi's acknowledge that.

Cindy is a disgrace, a liar, her husband is now divorcing her and the rest of the family has asked her to stop what she is doing and that they disagree with her, and that she is dishonoring her son.

Cindy's sister is with her all the way. I don't yet know who else and I DON'T CARE!

Tell me just exactly what lies she is telling!

Casey died doing his duty! Is is my duty to say this MUST be solved with DIPLOMACY............. not our childrens LIVES................. Iraq must KNOW we want Iraqis to control there own destiny. They have suffered enough all these decades....centuries....... and IRAQ is THEIR COUNTRY! If the Shites,Sunnis and Kurds don't come to terms where they can ALL realize the windfall from the wealth of the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world ....Death and Destruction will continue there.

It is horrible we fell into the hands of Chalabi and all has BACKFIRED!

Thank you to our troops who follow duty; and a bigger THANK YOU to people who want them home away from a brutal gang of monsters killing EVERYONE and ANYONE in their way for................ WHAT? GREED, Religion, IGNORANCE!

[charlie123]

[QUOTE=MAGI]Thanks to Cindy, for standing TALL for her principles.........getting out the truth about this unjustified Iraq War.

We are, at last, also seeing the media get out the truth! I'm hoping it will continue...........

With hope, very soon, the Iraqis will rule Iraq. If they really want to move forward they can. If strong desire isn't there, they will reap havoc for years to come...but it will be THEIR choice!

It's past TIME for our troops to come home!


Cindy is providing a focus for the "get out of Iraq"(not antiwar) movement. I bet the guys and gals in Iraq are all behind her; they want to get out asap before any more lives are lost uselessly. It's time to end this farce and salve to Bush's ego. If I had a child in Iraq I would feel the same way she (and millions of others) do...if my child was killed, I'd want to know what he or she died for!! If you have to lose a child at least you have a right to know what he or she died for. Right now, I would be distraught...not knowing.

She's right to ask what the "noble cause" is!!Certainly no threat to American interests. Who cares about Iraq??It is a nothing country. As soon as we leave (in 10 years or ten days) they are going to have a civil war.

[joepol4]

Ms. Sheehan is right on target for challenging Dubya and gangs folly that is the Iraqi war. Only thing is , we need more like her. There is a anti-war peace rally scheduled for Washington on Sept. 24 -26(check dates)sponsored by United for Peace coinciding with a right-wing event going on at the same general time. Anyone who can make it to Washington (D.C) it would be great to have lots of numbers there to support the cause.

http://unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=type&type=91

[gratelady1]

right :rolleyes:, and Kerry was a disgrace and a liar rather than a war hero, Gore said he invented the Internet, Hilary and Theresa are *****es, etc. etc....

the Republican smear machine needs some fresh material because I believe their act is wearing thin with the American public and that will be reflected in the polls when voters punish everyone who blindly kept supporting the biggest "disgrace and liar" who ever resided in the White House. George W Bush makes Richard M Nixon look like George Washington.

Shame on anyone who smears the mother of a son who gave his life for Bush's lie and is simply trying to save more of America's sons and daughters from the same fate.

Furthermore, I don't give a rat's ass about her family, whether she is a liar, or, for that matter, whether she is a serial killer -- she's not running for office. All that matters is that she is standing up for what is right and I'm standing with her.
\

http://www.patriotsofamerica.net/DefenseSuperiorServiceMedal.html (http://)

To whom all these presents greetings;

This to certify that Gratelady1 has bestowed upon -V- the medal of service, for the complete and unselfish defense of a "Mother of a fallen soldier" and decrees that -V- is a man amongst men and deserving all previledges there with.
Thanks you -V-, without folks like you GWB and co. would go unchecked. ;)

You are surely my hero, Can I have your child? You stud meister you.

[-V-]

I accept your nomination for a medal of service and pledge to do my best to continue to be worthy of the honor you have bestowed on me. I must, however, decline the label, "man amongst men" which true progressives must denounce as an antiquated expression describing a male persona corrupted by ego and machismo.

I would be happy to donate my sperm in the interest of propogating future generations of progressive liberals dedicated to combating future generations of Bush heads.

[gratelady1]

OK, so you are a Real person amongst pseudo people.

[StevieRayVaughn]

Ignore people who want to attack Cindy Sheehan. They are obsessed and sadly, very uneducated about terrorism, war, al qaeda and the military. Iraqis don't want us in their land. Insurgents will only continue blowing things up if we don't leave. There have been countless protests by natives asking for our immediate withdrawal but people back in the USA ignore them.

Bin Laden has not been caught, and he thrills to have us in Iraq. By remaining we play right into his hands. Smart people don't want to make Bin Laden happy.

Continue supporting Cindy and her ballsy crew. She is doing more for the future of this country then any pro-Iraq war person ever will.

[snowdog]

Cindy is the Left's Idiot ! I fail to see her arguement about the unfortunate death
of her son. He RE-enlisted in the Military to go back to Iraq! He wasn't drafted.
Do I understand any of her son's motives..... I am retired US ARMY, My wife is in
her 11th year of Active duty in the US Navy, My Son is in his first year in the USMC. Yea, I know the mindset. Its great to have all these "opinions" on
the different subjects, But Opinions are one thing, FACTS are another.

I seen a commercial the other day about a 50ish woman, who was a Democrate, protested the Vietnam War, Etc, then as she grew older she
became republican and more interested in as it appeared..in conservative values.
So I guess, it appears most young Americans want to yell and scream
then as they mature and educate themselves, it all seems to change.

[MAGI]

New York Times report on the Antiwar rallies in Washington this past weekend and Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/24/AR2005092401734_3.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/25/politics/25protest.html?th&emc=th

[gratelady1]

Cindy is the Left's Idiot ! I fail to see her arguement about the unfortunate death
of her son. He RE-enlisted in the Military to go back to Iraq! He wasn't drafted.
Do I understand any of her son's motives..... I am retired US ARMY, My wife is in
her 11th year of Active duty in the US Navy, My Son is in his first year in the USMC. Yea, I know the mindset. Its great to have all these "opinions" on
the different subjects, But Opinions are one thing, FACTS are another.

I seen a commercial the other day about a 50ish woman, who was a Democrate, protested the Vietnam War, Etc, then as she grew older she
became republican and more interested in as it appeared..in conservative values.
So I guess, it appears most young Americans want to yell and scream
then as they mature and educate themselves, it all seems to change.

The score by most reports yesterday was;
Saturday 100,000 anti-war protesters for an entire day
Sunday 400 pro-war ralliers for a couple of hours

I think you probably already did the math and realize maybe your not on the right side of history. Do you need me to prove it? Is it worth be embarrassed again, due to GWB's policies?

I am sorry your wife is a squid and your son his a grunt, but they choose their own destinys, And you never answered my question- Would you hold them accountable for their actions? Or are they considered above the law?

[MAGI]

New York Times report on the Antiwar rallies in Washington this past weekend and Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/24/AR2005092401734_3.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/25/politics/25protest.html?th&emc=th

More like 300,000 Anti war protesters just in Washington, D.C..........

[snowdog]

The score by most reports yesterday was;
Saturday 100,000 anti-war protesters for an entire day
Sunday 400 pro-war ralliers for a couple of hours

I think you probably already did the math and realize maybe your not on the right side of history. Do you need me to prove it? Is it worth be embarrassed again, due to GWB's policies?

I am sorry your wife is a squid and your son his a grunt, but they choose their own destinys, And you never answered my question- Would you hold them accountable for their actions? Or are they considered above the law?


LOL..... this is truely amusing, No I would not hold them accountable if they were
acting under orders. (unless they know them to be illigal, immoral) Do you hold
my brother accountable? As for needing you to PROVE it........what the heck
do you think I been trying to get you to do for the past 3 days ????

Prove that GWB doesn't care about the 3,000 killed, or SHUT-UP !!

[gratelady1]

LOL..... this is truely amusing, No I would not hold them accountable if they were
acting under orders. (unless they know them to be illigal, immoral) Do you hold
my brother accountable? As for needing you to PROVE it........what the heck
do you think I been trying to get you to do for the past 3 days ????

Prove that GWB doesn't care about the 3,000 killed, or SHUT-UP !!

Oliver North (that traiterous pig) was accused of what? And was found how?
HE thought he could get away with "following orders"- the diffused responsibilty arguement.

[gratelady1]

Since when has the Fascist gotten away with outlawing public dissent? Hitler would have been proud of his love child GWB!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9493139/

The cool part about this story is Cindy was the coolest when they carted her off to the lockase-hoochcow. I am so sorry I wasn't there, I would have been proud to have that charge on my record- now I feel like such a whimp! Why do others have the cohones to do glorious things and im here just reading about it?

[MAGI]

New York Times report on the Antiwar rallies in Washington this past weekend and Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/24/AR2005092401734_3.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/25/politics/25protest.html?th&emc=th
More like 300,000 actually in Washington, D.C. alone!

Football star, Pat tillman was against the war in Iraq and George Bush! He gave up his career and life to go to Afghanistan with his brother to find Bin Laden!

Instead our Pentagan sent him to Iraq for months before he was able to go to AFGHANISTAN to fight AL QAEDA .......NOT HUSSEIN.

It was AL Qaeda terrorists from Saudi Arabia who flew two planes (planes which U.S. flight schools trained and who sent information about those men who didn't care to learn how to land them.........?), into the TWIN TOWERS. Our top FBI & CIA agents and guess who else, ignored this information given them..... well before 9/11!

Read this story how OUR "leaders" have done their very best to change the actual happenings about the killing of another great U.S. hero, Pat Tillman!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL

Thanks to the Tillman family and true patriots there at the scene, the True story is coming out

[snowdog]

Oliver North (that traiterous pig) was accused of what? And was found how?
HE thought he could get away with "following orders"- the diffused responsibilty arguement.

I see your trying hard Glady1, but Oliver North 15 minuites of fame was
back during the Reagon era. That is diffuesed responsibility on your part.

will you please just explain why you claim GWB does not care about the
3,000 killed. I don't want an arguement, just to understand why you
would make that claim. Thanks for being a great American !!

[MAGI]

More like 300,000 actually in Washington, D.C. alone!

Football star, Pat Tillman was against the war in Iraq and George Bush! He joined the service and gave up his career and life to go to Afghanistan with his brother to find Bin Laden!

Instead, our Pentagan sent him to Iraq for months before he was able to go to AFGHANISTAN to fight AL QAEDA .......Bin Laden........NOT HUSSEIN.

It was AL Qaeda terrorists from Saudi Arabia who flew two U.S. airplanes into the TWIN TOWERS."

At least 19 al Qaeda Saudis took flight lessons at U.S. flight training schools. One of the instructors noted at least one didn't care to learn how to land the airplane. "Our top FBI & CIA agents and guess who else, ignored this information given them well before 9/11!

Read this story how OUR "leaders" have done their very best to change the actual happenings about the killing of another great U.S. hero, Pat Tillman!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL

Thanks to the Tillman family and true patriots (his buddies) there at the scene, the True story is coming out"

Just a little clarification :o

[gratelady1]

Good job MAGI!

[snowdog]

Magi, I have no Idea what your military experience is I put 23 years in, and
If you believe that when a person takes the oath, soon after the US Army
will ask you....."OK now your in the ARMY, would you rather go fight in
Iraq or Afghanistan?" it don't work like that. Thats an interesting point
you brought up. You call Mr. Tillman a hero (they are all heros) and yet as
you said, HE... Pat Tillman wanted to join the military I am befuddled as to how
everyone on this board or close too it are completely against the troops,
fighting in Iraq. And yet Pat Tillman is a hero. which I believe he is. Do you
not think that is a bit contradictory? If it is so wrong for us to be over there,
than why would someone like Mr. Tillman want to go and fight and then be
labeled a "hero" from someone that is completely against the war in Iraq?

I don't know if Mr. Tillman was against the war or not.......but seems to me
that if one is against the war....why in the world would he or she join the
US Military? He had money, fame it obviously wasn't an economical situation
why he joined the military. I am trying to understand that...."hummmm I
do not agree with President Bush invading Iraq, So I think I will join the US
ARMY!" does that make any sense?

I have been involved in combat on 3 occasions, killed by friendly fire is a terrible
thing, to try and cover it up is loathsome, but read your history books, friendly-
fire casualities have been happening since man started fighting. Before the US
went into Iraq, or Afghanistan, Do you not think that there was talk about the
estimated casualities from friendly fire? Do you not think the US ARMY in training
given to Mr. Tillman didn not inform him of the possiblility of a friendly fire
incident. One other point Mr. Tillman volunteered to be in a combat unit. He
could of been in weather, veterinary services, photography, or hell PR. etc. He
choose to be in a combat role. How much did he really hate, us fighting in
IRAQ or Afganistan.

[snowdog]

Mrs. Sheehan...oops I mean Miss. Sheehan has been through a very
difficult time, she lost her son. That is a terrible thing for a mother
OR father to go thru. My condolences are with her and her family.

But as I understand it. Miss. Sheehan, before her son was killed, was
in favor of her son fighting for his country. I can't seem to find anything
on her anti-war feelings until AFTER his death.

Correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you will) but did her son not go to Iraq
and fight a tour, then come home and re-enlist to go back to Iraq?

seems to me it was ok for her son to be a US SOLDIER, until the "unthinkable"
happens. It apparently didn't matter that 1200 other troops were killed (up
to that point) but Now, "My son is dead! and its not fair"!

That forum members is the reality of it. I don't agree with the war in IRAQ
or at least how it has been handled, as I stated earlier, My wife is US NAVY
stationed onboard a carrier, my son is USMC. Yes, I fear that perhaps I too
may one day have some "visitors" come to my house. My wife enjoys being in
the US NAVY, My son loves the USMC, did I raise him to know that at 18, he
would join the Military? hell no. I am over 60% disabled through the VA. He
had his ticket to pick the college of his choice. He chose to join the USMC.
I support him and all the other young men and women who made that decision.

My son believes in what he is doing. should something bad happen I will be
heartbroken, but I WILL NOT degrade him or my wife with contraditory actions
of what he or SHE wanted to do! would love to see the protestors waving
there signs of protest when a carrier comes back home pulling into port, or
when that C-141 brings our soldiers home. try doing that infront of the thousands of family members waiting on there loved ones. See how far that goes! For those who have no affiliation with the military, and have no clue...
your welcome to your views, opinions. KNow the facts not what Someone told
you. I won't claim to be an expert in theology, but isn't there a proverb in the
good book that says something about intelligent people use there ears more
than their mouth?

[MAGI]

.

My son believes in what he is doing. should something bad happen I will be
heartbroken, but I WILL NOT degrade him or my wife with contraditory actions
of what he or SHE wanted to do! would love to see the protestors waving
there signs of protest when a carrier comes back home pulling into port, or
when that C-141 brings our soldiers home. try doing that infront of the thousands of family members waiting on there loved ones. See how far that goes! For those who have no affiliation with the military, and have no clue...
your welcome to your views, opinions. KNow the facts not what Someone told
you. I won't claim to be an expert in theology, but isn't there a proverb in the
good book that says something about intelligent people use there ears more
than their mouth?

Snowdog, it is YOU who should pay attention to the last sentence of your paragraph.
I kNOW you don't know the story of Pat Tillman. I was in Arizona when he enlisted to "get Bin Laden". It was all over the news! Everyone who followed football (which I don't) and read the papers in AZ. and perhaps all over the country KNEW why he joined the special forces. Did you fully read the article I enclosed which was written in a CA newspaper the day I posted the story? I guess you didn't because what you write doesn't reflect the story, esp. what his buddies at the scene of his death said!

Nowhere have I ever said any person in the service is NOT a hero. Well, I take that back, I don't respect The Commander in Chief. I cheered for those returning troops when they came home from Viet Nam! Every war since WW2! I NEVER understood ANYONE who didn't hold our returning HEROS (every one of them) in high esteem. It's only in the recent past that I learned the American Legion didn't hold respect for thr Viet Nam vets. (?)

Every person in the service of our country is a hero in my eyes. I've said they took an oath to do their duty and cannot legally speak out against this illegal war in Iraq; so those of us who can, will speak for most likely the majority of them and do our best to end this war. More than 60% of our countrymen now know this war was based on lies and manipulation!

There was no reason to jump into the war with so much uncertainty!

Cindy didn't want her son to go back to Iraq. He did what HE felt was right. He wasn't a fighter, I believe he was involved in the ministry and wanted to work for good there. That's why I call him and Cindy heroes. Cindy doesn't want to see anyone else's child killed, maimed or wounded in the war which is so wrong.

[snowdog]

I kinda see your point Magi, and I read the article, and Yes I guess your
good friends with Pat Tillman or whatever, I have never met the man nor
really heard of him till I seen him play for the cardinals.

My point is, I don't think Mr. Tillman is ignorant. I believe he received a
degree from arizona. Does it make any sense that if he opposed the war,
and president Bush, that he would join the US Armed forces? no less
SF? I won't go into it too lenghty but If I was opposed to abortion, would
I take a job at an abortion clinic? or if I hated Japanese cars, would I go
down to my local toyota dealer and buy an Echo? I guess you can't quite
understand my point. I take the blame for that as I am not the most
articulate person. Also I get the impression you think I was accusing you
of not feeling that all the troops are heros, read my post I NEVER indicated
that. and....One doesn't join the Military and tells the Military that he or
she wants to fight the war in Afghanistan instead of Iraq. It don't work that
way. like I said I put in 23 years what military experiences do you have?

[MAGI]

I kinda see your point Magi, and I read the article, and Yes I guess your
good friends with Pat Tillman or whatever, I have never met the man nor
really heard of him till I seen him play for the cardinals.

My point is, I don't think Mr. Tillman is ignorant. I believe he received a
degree from arizona. Does it make any sense that if he opposed the war,
and president Bush, that he would join the US Armed forces? no less
SF? I won't go into it too lenghty but If I was opposed to abortion, would
I take a job at an abortion clinic? or if I hated Japanese cars, would I go
down to my local toyota dealer and buy an Echo? I guess you can't quite
understand my point. I take the blame for that as I am not the most
articulate person. Also I get the impression you think I was accusing you
of not feeling that all the troops are heros, read my post I NEVER indicated
that. and....One doesn't join the Military and tells the Military that he or
she wants to fight the war in Afghanistan instead of Iraq. It don't work that
way. like I said I put in 23 years what military experiences do you have?

The point is:
Pat Tillman as I, and more than likely you as every other American, were outraged when al Qaeda attacked New York and the Twin Towers! We were mad as HELL at ......Bin Laden!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, Pat Tillman is not MY personal friend but he left the Cardinals (I'll take your word for it) and the money to GO AFTER BIN LADEN. Pat was NOT your everyday recruit! We were told he was going after Bin Laden! He was known to Rumsfeld and the pentagon......esp. McCain, Arizona's hero. I guess under those circumstances, we were pretty surprized to learn he was in Iraq.

Yes, I know if you're a cook, you'll probably end up anything other than a cook. Same goes for any other job a recruit is proficient in. I know not a lot of good sense is put to use there..... Well, I'm not, and never have been military. My husband was in the Korean war. I had uncles in WW2, BUT, I saw Bush One leave all those tanks in the desert in the first Gulf War & I yelled at the T.V. when our forces didn't bomb the HELL out of them and put them out of business! The Elite Guard with their tanks lived to fight again! 100 hour war....! I think I was a heck of a lot smarter than those guys who sat in tents out there and gave Hussein permission to fly over the Turks (I think) with helicopters! He did ........and POISONED thousands of Iraqi citizens. No I've never been in the military but I can see, hear and think and make an informed determination.

Incidently, I speak loud and clear to my representatives telling them to pay our servicepeople a decent wage and keep open the V.A. hospitals, staffed with enough qualified help to take care of our troops & veterans every day of their lives. I am outraged how our gov't tried to duck it's responsibility for the damage caused by Agent Orange...........now radiated artillary and Humvees without proper armour and National Guard and regular military troops not having proper protective gear and on and on.

[snowdog]

Good reply. What concerns me a bit about that, is I would wonder how
Joe Smo would feel as a private joining the US ARMY and like everyone else
the ARMY assigns him to a unit, Then as you said Pat Tillman talks with
Donald R. and because he is a celebrity, he chooses where HE wants to go?
I don't think that would fly to good amongst the ranks.

Me, I put in 23 years, first 5 as FAC (Forward Air Controller)in the USAF my first combat
experience was in Panama in 89, I spent just over 8 months in Iraq/Kuwait
during the first gulf War ( I agree 100% with you as did the troops around
me that we should of finished it then) I was in the initial assault in this
latest gulf war. Oh yea I spent 4 months in Afghanistan Not so much as
in a combat role I helped collect information NO NOT CIA !
My Brother who has 15 years in lost the bottom of his leg last year in Iraq.
He is still in the US Army !

[MAGI]

I'm on your side and wish your family safe arrival home and the best of care for all your service to our country! Know that I'll be fighting for it!

and.........At this point in time ..............my choice for presidental candidate in 2008 is.......John Edwards... and I choose Wesley Clark in "Donald's" job.

And no, I'm not looking for an argument here. :eek:

[snowdog]

I'm on your side and wish your family safe arrival home and the best of care for all your service to our country! Know that I'll be fighting for it!

and.........At this point in time ..............my choice for presidental candidate in 2008 is.......John Edwards... and I choose Wesley Clark in "Donald's" job.

And no, I'm not looking for an argument here. :eek:

No arguement from me Maam.
You know, actually I am a bit curious about John Edwards myself, on the
surface he seemed likeable and had that air of a hard working kinda guy.

That is kinda what I had kinda griped about, this past election, I like many
never really got the chance to get to know the Democratic team with all the
stuff going on around them. Maybe J kerry would of been a decent Pres,
but with all the groups around him it was like you couldn't hear him.

[gratelady1]

My son believes in what he is doing. should something bad happen I will be
heartbroken, but I WILL NOT degrade him or my wife with contraditory actions
of what he or SHE wanted to do! would love to see the protestors waving
there signs of protest when a carrier comes back home pulling into port, or
when that C-141 brings our soldiers home. try doing that infront of the thousands of family members waiting on there loved ones. See how far that goes! For those who have no affiliation with the military, and have no clue...
your welcome to your views, opinions. KNow the facts not what Someone told
you. I won't claim to be an expert in theology, but isn't there a proverb in the
good book that says something about intelligent people use there ears more
than their mouth?

May I ask you a few pointed questions regarding this post?

Do you think it would be a good idea to teach the troops that just because we protest he war, does not mean we protest them?

Do they have to be tought, that because we protest what they were ordered to do, does not means we cant honor and respect them?

Do they have to be tought, that we "as the voting citizens" have the ultimate responsiblity to protect them from their citizen commander and chief and we are the only ones that can?

Do they have to be taught that if they enjoy killing, there is something wrong with them?

Or do you think it is better that when they come home, they not know all the above and then believe we hate them?

Or are your wife and son intelligent enough to already know all the above and accept the reality, like my son and brother do, versus your fears?

[snowdog]

May I ask you a few pointed questions regarding this post?

Do you think it would be a good idea to teach the troops that just because we protest he war, does not mean we protest them?

Do they have to be tought, that because we protest what they were ordered to do, does not means we cant honor and respect them?

Do they have to be tought, that we "as the voting citizens" have the ultimate responsiblity to protect them from their citizen commander and chief and we are the only ones that can?

Do they have to be taught that if they enjoy killing, there is something wrong with them?

Or do you think it is better that when they come home, they not know all the above and then believe we hate them?

Or are your wife and son intelligent enough to already know all the above and accept the reality, like my son and brother do, versus your fears?

Great Post! Finally you have managed to convey a sensible writing. Without
taking the time to answer each and every question I agree with your points.
Again, I do Not Agree with the way GWB or his administration is handling
the war. I don't believe GWB can tomorrow wake up and Say I want all the
troops pulled out by 1 Nov 05. That is only my view and opinion. You may
certainly question it. or disagree with it. But to say I am Feeble-minded for
it makes the accuser look bad in that the accuser is the one who touts a
truely free America.

[gratelady1]

Great Post! Finally you have managed to convey a sensible writing. Without
taking the time to answer each and every question I agree with your points.
Again, I do Not Agree with the way GWB or his administration is handling
the war. I don't believe GWB can tomorrow wake up and Say I want all the
troops pulled out by 1 Nov 05. That is only my view and opinion. You may
certainly question it. or disagree with it. But to say I am Feeble-minded for
it makes the accuser look bad in that the accuser is the one who touts a
truely free America.

Snowbeagle, you have to put my accusations in context- to me, saying your feeble-minded (also I believe this is being kind and ment as a compliment), allows you to have an out for incorrect or non-though-out conclusions, the opposite would incline to present evidence of a clear and direct attempt on your part, to be a sharp thinking, malicious, unscrupulous, insidious propoganist, here to convince everyone everything is ok under God- oh I mean GWB!
For those of you in Realinda- this means it is better to seem feeble-minded, than to be thought of as the Devil himself.

[snowdog]

Snowbeagle, you have to put my accusations in context- to me, saying your feeble-minded (also I believe this is being kind and ment as a compliment), allows you to have an out for incorrect or non-though-out conclusions, the opposite would incline to present evidence of a clear and direct attempt on your part, to be a sharp thinking, malicious, unscrupulous, insidious propoganist, here to convince everyone everything is ok under God- oh I mean GWB!
For those of you in Realinda- this means it is better to seem feeble-minded, than to be thought of as the Devil himself.

But you see glady1 the point is YOU GAVE ME that "OUT". because
of your inability to think ahead.

You may need to go back and read more of my post glady, as I have said
again and again I DO NOT AGREE alot of things with the GWB policies.

and under what context do you call me FEEBLE-MINDED?

Had this been a debate infront of our peers you would of lost long ago.
just me merely pointing out your blind hate which you can't see thru to talk
rationally about the issues. I still laugh when I go back and look at the
picture of proof that shows GWB doesn't care......again, its priceless.

Oh yea, and I'm sure you probably read it wrong again, but its Snowdog.
an honest mistake, and thats how I take it. but we wouldn't want the
audience to think your attacking me would we? and loose MORE credibility.

[gratelady1]

But you see glady1 the point is YOU GAVE ME that "OUT". because
of your inability to think ahead.

You may need to go back and read more of my post glady, as I have said
again and again I DO NOT AGREE alot of things with the GWB policies.

and under what context do you call me FEEBLE-MINDED?

Had this been a debate infront of our peers you would of lost long ago.
just me merely pointing out your blind hate which you can't see thru to talk
rationally about the issues. I still laugh when I go back and look at the
picture of proof that shows GWB doesn't care......again, its priceless.

Oh yea, and I'm sure you probably read it wrong again, but its Snowdog.
an honest mistake, and thats how I take it. but we wouldn't want the
audience to think your attacking me would we? and loose MORE credibility.

If I can prove to you by your own quotes- that you wont admit GWB was on ground zero on Sept. 14, 2001. and that he was standing on rubble, which contains the vicitms' remains, and that he was only there for an photo-op and anti-terrorist pep-rally, how can your feeble-mindedness be denied?

[snowdog]

If I can prove to you by your own quotes- that you wont admit GWB was on ground zero on Sept. 14, 2001. and that he was standing on rubble, which contains the vicitms' remains, and that he was only there for an photo-op and anti-terrorist pep-rally, how can your feeble-mindedness be denied?

I not sure I follow glady.....The issue was not to prove GWB was standing
at ground zero. Your "photo" is proof of that. the whole world seen it.
I never have discounted that fact. I like millions of others was proud of
GWB standing there with the fireman, Charles Schumer, Mrs. Clinton, the
dozens of other dignataries from other countries that came through to view
the scene. You loosing it glady, I never denied GWB was there.

again the whole point is that you had said you had ,(gosh I want to quote
but will at a later time) something about undeniable proof that GWB doesn't
care.......and out comes that Photo. how many times do we have to go over
this. Maybe you are thinking you'll come out on top, because eventually
I will tire of this and move on. Sorry, unfortunetly for you I am retired! I have
all the time in the world!

[gratelady1]

I not sure I follow glady.....The issue was not to prove GWB was standing
at ground zero. Your "photo" is proof of that. the whole world seen it.
I never have discounted that fact. I like millions of others was proud of
GWB standing there with the fireman, Charles Schumer, Mrs. Clinton, the
dozens of other dignataries from other countries that came through to view
the scene. You loosing it glady, I never denied GWB was there.

again the whole point is that you had said you had ,(gosh I want to quote
but will at a later time) something about undeniable proof that GWB doesn't
care.......and out comes that Photo. how many times do we have to go over
this. Maybe you are thinking you'll come out on top, because eventually
I will tire of this and move on. Sorry, unfortunetly for you I am retired! I have
all the time in the world!

So with your own post, you at least admit (to yourself) GWB was at ground zero on Spet. 14, 2001. This is a start, and now we are near the end if you stop throwing everything else and it's grandma, in the soup to help distort the fact the he was there, and why he was there, and why now you are proving your case against Bush.

The next logical question is- do you admit it is disrespectful to walk on dead people's remains- yes or no?

[snowdog]

So with your own post, you at least admit (to yourself) GWB was at ground zero on Spet. 14, 2001. This is a start, and now we are near the end if you stop throwing everything else and it's grandma, in the soup to help distort the fact the he was there, and why he was there, and why now you are proving your case against Bush.

The next logical question is- do you admit it is disrespectful to walk on dead people's remains- yes or no?


YOU CHILD you have not shown any proof that GWB or anyone in the
photo (S) had knowingly stepped on any ones body parts, I am presently
doing a search to question your BS. again he was standing on a burned out
fire truck during the pics you supplied!

Dealing with you there is no logical questions or answeres !!

[gratelady1]

YOU CHILD you have not shown any proof that GWB or anyone in the
photo (S) had knowingly stepped on any ones body parts, I am presently
doing a search to question your BS. again he was standing on a burned out
fire truck during the pics you supplied!

Dealing with you there is no logical questions or answeres !!

Hey snowwienie, do you need some oxygen or something, maybe some viagra? Come on, you can do it! You dont need no stinkin walker- yet! Got some "Depends" ready? I know- you forgot your prunes!!! darn it, haven't you been taught better then that! I haven't had this much fun since I left the "Hannity" blog. :D

[snowdog]

Hey snowwienie, do you need some oxygen or something, maybe some viagra? Come on, you can do it! You dont need no stinkin walker- yet! Got some "Depends" ready? I know- you forgot your prunes!!! darn it, haven't you been taught better then that! I haven't had this much fun since I left the "Hannity" blog. :D


More personal attacks ... whatever. 1 tinSOLDIER, I was under the impression
we were to not go down that road. But I won't be baited. anyways
read through you contradictions and argue with your self for a while Glady1.

[MAGI]

a follow up to the Peace March in Washington if anyone is interested......Can't wait until November 2006?............I learned about this today;
http://worldcantwait.com/together/index.php
:D

[Jane of Arc]

Regardless of what you think of Cindy Sheehan ... she is fighting for peace and an end to killing.

Pro-war people fascinate me. I respect soldiers because they put their money where their mouths are and sadly they're "poor men off to fight a rich man's war".

But civilian Pro-war people truly puzzle me. Are they blind patriots so filled with nationalism that they can't see straight? Do they really believe you can spread "democracy" at gunpoint? Is it that they don't have the imagination to see beyond their fears and visualize and promote a world of co-existence?

The vast majority of American citizens want us out of Iraq, the Iraq people want us out of Iraq, the world wants us out of Iraq and God knows the troops want to come home.

Peace.

[MAGI]

Regardless of what you think of Cindy Sheehan ... she is fighting for peace and an end to killing.

Pro-war people fascinate me. I respect soldiers because they put their money where their mouths are and sadly they're "poor men off to fight a rich man's war".

But civilian Pro-war people truly puzzle me. Are they blind patriots so filled with nationalism that they can't see straight? Do they really believe you can spread "democracy" at gunpoint? Is it that they don't have the imagination to see beyond their fears and visualize and promote a world of co-existence?

The vast majority of American citizens want us out of Iraq, the Iraq people want us out of Iraq, the world wants us out of Iraq and God knows the troops want to come home.

Peace.

Cindy's recent message " my daughter Carly came out and hit me with my reason for living: her poem: A Nation Rocked to Sleep. One stanza reads:

Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?

"The first stanza reminded me that I was not the only one in the universe who had such excruciating grief, but the verse that helped me claw my way out of the pit of despair, one agonizing inch at a time, is the last stanza:

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?

I knew when she recited those lines to me that I would have to spend any amount of time, money, or energy to try and bring the troops home before another mother would have to weep. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't try to stop the war before Casey died. I foolishly thought: "What can one person do?""

The whole message:


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05373.html

[snowdog]

Cindy's recent message " my daughter Carly came out and hit me with my reason for living: her poem: A Nation Rocked to Sleep. One stanza reads:

Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?

"The first stanza reminded me that I was not the only one in the universe who had such excruciating grief, but the verse that helped me claw my way out of the pit of despair, one agonizing inch at a time, is the last stanza:

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?

I knew when she recited those lines to me that I would have to spend any amount of time, money, or energy to try and bring the troops home before another mother would have to weep. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't try to stop the war before Casey died. I foolishly thought: "What can one person do?""

The whole message:


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05373.html


So lets just sit back and let Saddam Gas the mothers, sons, fathers, and
daughters to death. I guess that falls under the leaders wanting to keep the
citizens numb huh? I do not agree with the strategy GWB is using. but how
much time have you all spent over in Iraq, and talked with the people over there?
You can quote newspaper columnists OPINIONS all day long, But what do you
all know about the Situation in Iraq? Oh I'm sorry.... You got in-depth reporting
from Michael Moore, and lets not forget........Sean Penn.

Hey while your at it, try flinging "progressive ideas on the Talibon, or hell any
middle-eastern culture. Or Russia, or China, or N. Korea, or Pakistan......

Do ya think they'd be open to Gay Marriage issues? women voting rights?
animal rights? Maybe a big protest march against the Govt. Hell you all should
be hapy that GWB is trying to take your progressive ideas around the globe!
say thank you GWB for promoting the rights of people!

[snowdog]

I rarely do this here as obviously it is not accepted by all. but I thought
it would be nice to see what a soldier has to say. You know the ones that
are over there fighting, not sitting at a computer for hours a day pulling
out opinions/views from someone who has NO Clue of what going on.

Letter from an American soldier...

Read full CNSNews.com article w/ video:
Soldier’s Outrage at Anti-War Protests at Army Hospital


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“… I am a reservist out of Dallas, Texas, who is currently deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. I also was deployed to Iraq for one year in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. I was part of the initial invasion into Iraq. During my first deployment to Iraq, my MP unit was called up. I volunteered for this deployment because I felt I had more to give my country and felt it was the right thing to do. I would like to comment on the article you wrote in reference to the Code Pink group at Walter Reed Medical Center. I first saw your article on the Sean Hannity website and then listened to Marc Morano’s interview with Mr. Hannity via-pod cast from here in Afghanistan. (‘Anti-War Protests Target Wounded at Army Hospital,’ August 25)

When I read the article I was assuming that the group was just close to the Medical Center. But when I listened to your interview with Mr. Hannity and your confrontation of the Code Pink lady, it became a lot clearer. I was taken aback by her and her group’s arrogance to what they are really doing there and who they are actually hurting. To carry the signs, heckle the troops and to have mock caskets with an American flag over them is beyond protest. It is downright harassment of my brothers and sisters of the United States military who have been injured.

By the end of the interview I was shaking and was even in tears for my fellow brave soldiers who not only have to endure the loss of a limb(s), loss of sight, or even worse – the loss of a battle buddy (fellow soldier serving with your team). I know the guilt that soldiers feel when they are not taken or injured but someone else is. I feel guilt now that I made it through Iraq and now half way through my tour in Afghanistan and yet I am fine. Over 2,000 of my fellow soldiers have not made it. I can only imagine what my fellow injured soldiers are feeling as they look out that window and see the Code Pink group. I then went from thinking of my fellow soldiers to thinking about my family and what they would have to go through if I were injured and the emotional stress and guilt they would feel that they were unable to protect their 34-year-old son, even though I made a decision to protect my family and country. …

Even though I disagree with what all of these groups such as Code Pink, Moveon.org and anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan stand for, my fellow soldiers and I have fought, died, been injured and are still fighting for their right to protest and speak their mind. But what angers and hurts me as a soldier is that they parade their anti-war views in the face of my brothers and sisters who are recovering from the same battlefield that I fought on and am still fighting on as I type this e-mail. Is there no honor or dignity left in the anti-war movement? Do they have no shame? Do they have no integrity? Do they have no heart? Do they have no soul? I can answer that with a simple no! How can they say they support the troops but protest where they try to recover from war? You interviewed one gentleman, and I use that term loosely, who stated ‘If I was injured I would want someone to speak for me like this.’ Well let me tell him something, we do not want you to speak for us and we do not need you to speak for us! …

In closing, I would like to thank you for bringing their conduct to the public eye, not only in your article, but on ‘The Sean Hannity Show.’ I actually began to have some faith in the media again when I heard Morano stand up for us soldiers like he did. I wish there was something that I could do to personally thank him for your actions. But I am going to ask that you please do not stop speaking of these actions at Walter Reed. Please find a way to help stop the protesting at Walter Reed. Please write more articles, ask why they were granted permission, get public officials to speak out on the record and petition people to withdraw their right to protest within a certain distance from a military hospital. It scares me that next will be a fellow soldier's funeral. That is the next step! Please, I ask that you continue to investigate this protest and their rights to be there! Not to stop people’s freedom of speech, but protect and respect my fellow soldiers.”

Sgt. Mark Leach, U.S. Army
Afghanistan

[MAGI]

Cindy's recent message " my daughter Carly came out and hit me with my reason for living: her poem: A Nation Rocked to Sleep. One stanza reads:

Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?

"The first stanza reminded me that I was not the only one in the universe who had such excruciating grief, but the verse that helped me claw my way out of the pit of despair, one agonizing inch at a time, is the last stanza:

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?

I knew when she recited those lines to me that I would have to spend any amount of time, money, or energy to try and bring the troops home before another mother would have to weep. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't try to stop the war before Casey died. I foolishly thought: "What can one person do?""

The whole message:


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05373.html

I believe in showing the flag draped coffins......first page on every newspaper IN THE WORLD so we are not able to close our eyes to the illegal manipulated Iraq war. The day I heed what Sean Hannity has to say is the day you know I'm brain dead!

Fortunately we have the right to read everything about the war ,,,,,,so YOU are the one who knows NOT the whole story of what is happening over there, Snowdog!

I met 3 "pink ladies" in a restaurant in CT. the Sunday of the March. They were Christian woman from 3 different churches. That's all I can say about their cause,

and to believe the letter you just presented, I'd want a heck of a lot of proof that it is all true before I'd accept him speaking for ALL our troops.

Where do I find that story? I'm not having any luck. :confused:

[snowdog]

Fortunately we have the right to read everything about the war ,,,,,,so YOU are the one who knows NOT the whole story of what is happening over there, Snowdog!

I met 3 "pink ladies" in a restaurant in CT. the Sunday of the March. They were Christian woman from 3 different churches. That's all I can say about their cause,

and to believe the letter you just presented, I'd want a heck of a lot of proof that it is all true before I'd accept him speaking for ALL our troops.

Where do I find that story? I'm not having any luck. :confused:

First off I spent almost a year over there. How long were you over there?
You can read your papers from people all over and live off of THEIR OPINIONS.
but I have been there. BOTH WARS !! I have worked with hundreds of soldiers, I will say Yes there were 2 times that a soldier has questioned the
war. but 2 out of the hundreds I spoke with.......not a good showing.

Yea, I know, you don't agree with it so it must be wrong, or lies or whatever.
The story is from the support the troops website. No I don't think you'll
find it on Moveon.org. :D

I'll want a heck of a lot of proof that you met 3 ladies in a restaurant in CT.
how stupid does that sound? I never indicated in any way or manner that
the soldier was speaking for All the troops, It was simply a side that YOU
didn't want to hear. and Yes you are very confused.

[snowdog]

I was asked to (and accepted) a position (volunteer), to hear the Military
family members anger over the war in Iraq. Angry over their loved ones
being there? NO. anger that people like you have no clue what you are
talking about. I pretty much tell them, that YOU have a constitutional right
to protest. and that they're best bet is to contact their Govt representatives.
They are pissed that all these mouths are spouting off, and possibly
endagering their loved ones even more, as the world sees that, Al Qaeda see
it and it gives them more hope that the US will back out. So they fight it out.
I am active in helping out my fello servicemen and women. other than repeating
another persons views and opinions......what are you doing ?

[MAGI]

First off I spent almost a year over there. How long were you over there?
You can read your papers from people all over and live off of THEIR OPINIONS.
but I have been there. BOTH WARS !! I have worked with hundreds of soldiers, I will say Yes there were 2 times that a soldier has questioned the
war. but 2 out of the hundreds I spoke with.......not a good showing.

Yea, I know, you don't agree with it so it must be wrong, or lies or whatever.
The story is from the support the troops website. No I don't think you'll
find it on Moveon.org. :D

I'll want a heck of a lot of proof that you met 3 ladies in a restaurant in CT.
how stupid does that sound? I never indicated in any way or manner that
the soldier was speaking for All the troops, It was simply a side that YOU
didn't want to hear. and Yes you are very confused.

Snowdog, I've listened to other soldiers who have been there and they are NOT in agreement with YOU! So there are different opinions than yours.

When I told you about the three "pink ladies" I told you the only things I
learned about "pink ladies" so I can't tell you anything more about the "Pink Ladies" Understand?. It is YOU who makes no sense!

I'm willing to read the whole story .....so SHOW IT!

[snowdog]

Snowdog, I've listened to other soldiers who have been there and they are NOT in agreement with YOU! So there are different opinions than yours.

When I told you about the three "pink ladies" I told you the only things I
learned about "pink ladies" so I can't tell you anything more about the "Pink Ladies" Understand?. It is YOU who makes no sense!

I'm willing to read the whole story .....so SHOW IT!


So then, you can agree that there are more than just YOUR VIEWS on the
war in Iraq? is that correct? as..again, I never said nor even hinted that
all people or soldiers agreed on the War in Iraq! apparently you believe differently.

And again, I ask you when was the last time you were in Iraq? Afghanistan?
how often do you get down to a military hospital, VA center?

the letter from the soldier IS written in its entirety. but I will dig up the site
and paste it here for you since you apparently find it so hard to believe.

http://www.grassfire.net/400/soldier.htm. Oh this ought to be good.......

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=/SpecialReports/archive/200508/SPE20050825a.html ... even better !!

[-V-]

They are pissed that all these mouths are spouting off, and possibly endagering their loved ones even more 1. It is impossible for anything to endanger them more than them STAYING THERE! Bring them home. Support our troops -- bring them home.

2. If it was wrong to send them there (as the majority of America and the world agrees) it is wrong to keep them there.

3. Not one soldier who died or their family should want one more soldier to die for George Bush or U.S. pride.

4. If your reasoning is correct EVERY NATION EVER INVOLVED IN AN UNJUST WAR SHOULD KEEP THEIR SOLDIERS FIGHTING AND DYING IN THAT WAR FOR THE SOLDIERS THAT DIED BEFORE THEM and we'd still be etching out names on the Vietnam memorial wall.

5. As citizens, the most patriotic, compassionate, loving thing we can do for our soldiers is pressure our government to get them the f*ck out of there and the most treasonous, dangerous, destructive, pig-headed, thing for us to do is continue to trust a proven lying imbicilic fool with their lives and our money.


As far as the thoughts/letters of soldiers - just like us, some blindly support their President, some think he's an asshole. You can't get an unbaised read from soldiers anyway because, duh, the very core of their training demands that they blindly support their leaders.

I read the letter that you linked to and here's my answers to that soldier's questions regarding protestors:

"Do they have no shame? "
There is no shame in trying to save your life.

"Do they have no integrity?"
We honestly want to save your life.

"Do they have no heart?"
We love you. We want you home, safe and sound with the family that loves you. And we promise not to put your life on the line again in the future unless there truly is an immenent threat to our own lives.

[MAGI]

1. It is impossible for anything to endanger them more than them STAYING THERE! Bring them home. Support our troops -- bring them home.

2. If it was wrong to send them there (as the majority of America and the world agrees) it is wrong to keep them there.

3. Not one soldier who died or their family should want one more soldier to die for George Bush or U.S. pride.

4. If your reasoning is correct EVERY NATION EVER INVOLVED IN AN UNJUST WAR SHOULD KEEP THEIR SOLDIERS FIGHTING AND DYING IN THAT WAR FOR THE SOLDIERS THAT DIED BEFORE THEM and we'd still be etching out names on the Vietnam memorial wall.

5. As citizens, the most patriotic, compassionate, loving thing we can do for our soldiers is pressure our government to get them the f*ck out of there and the most treasonous, dangerous, destructive, pig-headed, thing for us to do is continue to trust a proven lying imbicilic fool with their lives and our money.


As far as the thoughts/letters of soldiers - just like us, some blindly support their President, some think he's an asshole. You can't get an unbaised read from soldiers anyway because, duh, the very core of their training demands that they blindly support their leaders.

I read the letter that you linked to and here's my answers to that soldier's questions regarding protestors:

"Do they have no shame? "
There is no shame in trying to save your life.

"Do they have no integrity?"
We honestly want to save your life.

"Do they have no heart?"
We love you. We want you home, safe and sound with the family that loves you. And we promise not to put your life on the line again in the future unless there truly is an immenent threat to our own lives.

Thanks -V-, to tell Snowdog that I realize there are different opinions seems to be useless! To say more than 62% of my countrymen feel as I, to show my opinion is shared by 2/3 of our countrymen is useless! To say getting burned is painfull and being hit by a car can result in death .... or whatever..........it must happen to the person to really know those statements are true. A pure waste of time to respond to Snowdog! I am finished with his nonsense!

[snowdog]

You keep your opinion that I have fought for. thats cool. but because I
don't agree, don't dismiss my opinion that I have fought for!

[snowdog]

I'm still waiting for Magi's answer as to the last time she was over in
Iraq, or Afghanistan? heck 1 -V- how long were you over there
in them areas?


Ya know in thinking it over.......I apologize for my last question, Sincerely.
you have as much right as me or anyone for your beliefs, views, or opinions.
We are all in this together. I do not AGREE with GWB's handling of the
war at this time. I do think that it was a good thing, to get in there and
remove Saddam. To give Democracy a foothold in that part of the world
will be benificial in the future. I like the vast majority of Americans, believe
it was the right thing to do, but the strategy of getting it done, and getting
out of there IS in my opinion, appears to be about NON-EXISTANT. That
does trouble me. Would I vote for GWB if he was allowed to run for a third
term. NO. I was never foolish enough to believe we went in there to get
at the "stockpiles of WMD". I never bought that for one minuite. but it
sounded better to the American public (the world), than to say, We removed
saddam, so that years down the road it will help to make the world a safer
place. People want results NOW. and right NOW soldiers are dying being
disabled. And that never comes over good. Will it help make the world safer
down the road for my kids...grandkids. NO ONE can answer that at this time.
I sure hope it does. as I'd be upset as you all if 2,000 + American lives have
been lost thus far.

[MAGI]

Cindy's recent message " my daughter Carly came out and hit me with my reason for living: her poem: A Nation Rocked to Sleep. One stanza reads:

Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?

"The first stanza reminded me that I was not the only one in the universe who had such excruciating grief, but the verse that helped me claw my way out of the pit of despair, one agonizing inch at a time, is the last stanza:

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?

I knew when she recited those lines to me that I would have to spend any amount of time, money, or energy to try and bring the troops home before another mother would have to weep. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't try to stop the war before Casey died. I foolishly thought: "What can one person do?""

The whole message:


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05373.html

Thanks Cindy, from this Mom

[gratelady1]

So then, you can agree that there are more than just YOUR VIEWS on the
war in Iraq? is that correct? as..again, I never said nor even hinted that
all people or soldiers agreed on the War in Iraq! apparently you believe differently.

And again, I ask you when was the last time you were in Iraq? Afghanistan?
how often do you get down to a military hospital, VA center?

the letter from the soldier IS written in its entirety. but I will dig up the site
and paste it here for you since you apparently find it so hard to believe.

http://www.grassfire.net/400/soldier.htm. Oh this ought to be good.......

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=/SpecialReports/archive/200508/SPE20050825a.html ... even better !!

May I direct this concern to the thread titled "Shut up and serve", My point?
Active serving military personel have one main duty- shut up and serve- ala they are supposed to keep thier opinions to themselves otherwise this would become the fascist country you and GWB need so bad!

Remind yourself of UCMJ and moral ethics of those that serve our country before you try some cheap trick like this Nazi fool!

[snowdog]

May I direct this concern to the thread titled "Shut up and serve", My point?
Active serving military personel have one main duty- shut up and serve- ala they are supposed to keep thier opinions to themselves otherwise this would become the fascist country you and GWB need so bad!

Remind yourself of UCMJ and moral ethics of those that serve our country before you try some cheap trick like this Nazi fool!

Please inform me glady1 of what article of the UCMJ says anything about military
members having to keep their opinions to themselves.

[gratelady1]

Please inform me glady1 of what article of the UCMJ says anything about military
members having to keep their opinions to themselves.

I am getting tired of doing your research for you, especially since you dont answer any proof posed to you, once you ask or demand it. I am too busy for that nonsense, especially if after the facts are presented you- you dont accept them as fact and instead counter by trying ot refute me and not the facts- that makes you shameless and lacking of a good hardy political arguementive conscience. And you have to admit it does become taxing.

But I will give you a bone- if when serving with you, IF I could charge you with art 917- 117, then 36 other articles would also apply and you would be subject to all those punishments also. But we are not serving and I know for a fact you know better then to test my research prowess- knucklhead!

But also I served before more "Captain's Mass" than I wish to care to admit to- for not wanting to remember grown serving U.S. servicemen crying like babies before the mast, because they did not understand the UCMJ, and an officers' abilty to use it.

[snowdog]

I am getting tired of doing your research for you, especially since you dont answer any proof posed to you, once you ask or demand it. I am too busy for that nonsense, especially if after the facts are presented you- you dont accept them as fact and instead counter by trying ot refute me and not the facts- that makes you shameless and lacking of a good hardy political arguementive conscience. And you have to admit it does become taxing.

But I will give you a bone- if when serving with you, IF I could charge you with art 917- 117, then 36 other articles would also apply and you would be subject to all those punishments also. But we are not serving and I know for a fact you know better then to test my research prowess- knucklhead!

But also I served before more "Captain's Mass" than I wish to care to admit to- for not wanting to remember grown serving U.S. servicemen crying like babies before the mast, because they did not understand the UCMJ, and an officers' abilty to use it.

In other words, you kinda got going and wasn't really thinking about what you said. There is NO ARTICLE that prohibits a military member from voicing his/her
opinion. Obviously you cannot wear the uniform at a protest, or a rally. I don't
know how long you were in but I...in 23 years have NEVER been thru a "captains Mass" ( In the Army, AF its article 15). Since you mentioned that you have
serverd before more than you care to admit.......I guess you didn't quite
understand the military did you? that Kinda explains alot. Oh yea, and I have
answered your questions of proof, AND MAGI's. So relax. LOL I am still waiting
for you to come up with the 51% negative rating on the "Misery" index. Dang glady, when I am wrong I admit it. its no big deal. what is it that makes it so
difficult for you? OOOPs, because then a "republican" showed you up!
May the good Lord shine on you Glady1!!

[gratelady1]

In other words, you kinda got going and wasn't really thinking about what you said. There is NO ARTICLE that prohibits a military member from voicing his/her
opinion. Obviously you cannot wear the uniform at a protest, or a rally. I don't
know how long you were in but I...in 23 years have NEVER been thru a "captains Mass" ( In the Army, AF its article 15). Since you mentioned that you have
serverd before more than you care to admit.......I guess you didn't quite
understand the military did you? that Kinda explains alot. Oh yea, and I have
answered your questions of proof, AND MAGI's. So relax. LOL I am still waiting
for you to come up with the 51% negative rating on the "Misery" index. Dang glady, when I am wrong I admit it. its no big deal. what is it that makes it so
difficult for you? OOOPs, because then a "republican" showed you up!
May the good Lord shine on you Glady1!!

So you are stateing here and in front of everyone and Jesus that you served 23 years and that you voiced your opinion all you wanted, and never were brought up on any charges that were covered by the UCMJ?

You are also stateing that there is no such thing as 917 art.117?

You are also suggesting I dont know what I am talking about.

Like I said I am tired of doing your research for you, and tired of listening to you and your twisted beliefs. You did not serve 23 years, I suggest you are an out right Un-American liar, And a crack pot, and political hack. You dont understand the UCMJ and the process and the military, you should just shut up!

[snowdog]

So you are stateing here and in front of everyone and Jesus that you served 23 years and that you voiced your opinion all you wanted, and never were brought up on any charges that were covered by the UCMJ?

You are also stateing that there is no such thing as 917 art.117?

You are also suggesting I dont know what I am talking about.

Like I said I am tired of doing your research for you, and tired of listening to you and your twisted beliefs. You did not serve 23 years, I suggest you are an out right Un-American liar, And a crack pot, and political hack. You dont understand the UCMJ and the process and the military, you should just shut up!

YES your wrong Glady1, I won't call you an idiot, or a crackpot as that would
be illigal under the UCMJ. giving you my opinion, is NOT illegal. doing so in a
manner that offends someone...is. If we are debating GWB and you tell me.
that GWB is not handling the war very good. There is NO ARTICLE in the UCMJ
that I could use against you. IF we are debating GWB, and you tell me that
GWB, is a F$%$#*# idiot, or As you have mentioned a few times in your posts
he should put a 9 mm to his head. YES, YOU are violating at least 4 different
articles of the UCMJ. I'll be you have alot of trouble reading directions on
things don't you? Well, Keep trying Gladdy1!

I have no reason to lie about how long I served Glady. And if I am lying.. how
does that effect you? your comments above would explain why you were before
so many Co's for punishiment. You are talking blindly. are you sure you are not
really just 15? Your accusations against me are false, and are your opinion,
which you want people to believe are true. but they're not. you must be a really sad individual. You twist things around to make it work for you, anyone
with a brain can see thru it. but apparently your a bit slow in seeing the fool
you make out of your self. SO please as I have explained to you on several
occasions please think it out before you speak or type. that is to help you
to relate to people in a manner that they won't think of you as being a bit
........OFF. :)

[snowdog]

But I will give you a bone- if when serving with you, IF I could charge you with art 917- 117, then 36 other articles would also apply and you would be subject to all those punishments also. But we are not serving and I know for a fact you know better then to test my research prowess- knucklhead!



How bout using that vaunted "research Prowess" and show me the
51% MISERY index/poll rating? As I am a knucklehead, and need the
help of someone like you with your wisdom to help me see the folly of
my dumb "Republican" ways. I have asked you for that information no less
than half a dozen times up to this point.

[MAGI]

Cindy's recent message " my daughter Carly came out and hit me with my reason for living: her poem: A Nation Rocked to Sleep. One stanza reads:

Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?

"The first stanza reminded me that I was not the only one in the universe who had such excruciating grief, but the verse that helped me claw my way out of the pit of despair, one agonizing inch at a time, is the last stanza:

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?

I knew when she recited those lines to me that I would have to spend any amount of time, money, or energy to try and bring the troops home before another mother would have to weep. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't try to stop the war before Casey died. I foolishly thought: "What can one person do?""

The whole message:


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05373.html

Back on Topic

[gratelady1]

How bout using that vaunted "research Prowess" and show me the
51% MISERY index/poll rating? As I am a knucklehead, and need the
help of someone like you with your wisdom to help me see the folly of
my dumb "Republican" ways. I have asked you for that information no less
than half a dozen times up to this point.

Why cant you keep this specific issue on the other thread (The new United Police State) where it belongs? What are you tring to acomplish by crapping all over the threads? :cool:

[MAGI]

Cindy's recent message " my daughter Carly came out and hit me with my reason for living: her poem: A Nation Rocked to Sleep. One stanza reads:

Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?

"The first stanza reminded me that I was not the only one in the universe who had such excruciating grief, but the verse that helped me claw my way out of the pit of despair, one agonizing inch at a time, is the last stanza:

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?

I knew when she recited those lines to me that I would have to spend any amount of time, money, or energy to try and bring the troops home before another mother would have to weep. I was ashamed of myself that I didn't try to stop the war before Casey died. I foolishly thought: "What can one person do?""

The whole message:


http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05373.html
Back on Topic

[Adolph]

will you please just explain why you claim GWB does not care about the
3,000 killed.

C'mon greatlady. Snowdog was kind enough to answer your questions, I think you owe him the same.

[gratelady1]

C'mon greatlady. Snowdog was kind enough to answer your questions, I think you owe him the same.

Evidence has already been presented, and argued over- your late big time, and no, snowdog will not agree to conceptualzing/ conventionalizing or in any other form agreeing to operational defintions, he is a coward, much like you, if you asked for evidence that has already been given, but just wont accept it. It is pointless to have a drawn out discussion with someone that wont admit to certain facts; ie.. that GWB was at ground zero on Sept. 14, trampling all over the remains of the dead, politicing/stumping/swearing and in everyway desacrating the spot of the end result his own ineptness.

But I challenge you and snowdog and any other would be debater, JD. or political- legal type to a court-room duel (as it were). I propose we have a formal trial for "W", just for the purpose of finding him innocent of my charges, or guilty of being a yellow, scruppleless, politician, with absolutely no regard for the 3000 who lost their lives because of his carelessness.

We can agree to meet in the chat room (court room) on this blog, at a given time in the evening, where anyone and everyone that wants to participate, can add their two cents.

I can agree to be the procecuter, you and/or snowdog can agree to be the defence attys., we will ask for volunteers to be judge, and witnesses.

It will be formal and we can agree to rules, we can have hearings to conventionalize rules, and determine operational defintions, that would be acceptable to all- ie. filthy means dirty-unclean, and only that- for the purposes of this trial (only an example).

Are you game/ do you have the time? Can your mental defense mechanisms allow you to accept GWB as guilty of anything? Or are you just another Hack also?

Come on, you know you and snowmutt, would love ot embarass the likes of me in a live chat- debate- type trial for your mighty Furer-GWB! dont be a sissy, you can do it!, grow some testicles man!

How about we start the pre-trial hearings lets say in two weeks, at around ten Pm everynight, and set a trial date for lets say around Thanksgiving where everyone can do some research, have plenty of pratice on the court-room chatroom and have the time to see it through?

[Adolph]

It is pointless to have a drawn out discussion with someone that wont admit to certain facts; ie.. that GWB was at ground zero on Sept. 14, trampling all over the remains of the dead, politicing/stumping/swearing and in everyway desacrating the spot of the end result his own ineptness.


And if he had not shown up at Ground Zero, you and everybody else of your ilk, would have gave him hell for not showing enough compassion or that he was not caring enough.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[gratelady1]

And if he had not shown up at Ground Zero, you and everybody else of your ilk, would have gave him hell for not showing enough compassion or that he was not caring enough.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

No- only Bush is capable of being damned no matter what he does- he's a lousy politician- a pendeho! An incompetent, a simpleton, an idiot, and not wothry of your defense!

[Adolph]

I'll decide who is worthy of my defense or not. Thank You.

But you know I am right about what I said about---"Damned if you do, Damned if you dont"

[gratelady1]

I'll decide who is worthy of my defense or not. Thank You.

But you know I am right about what I said about---"Damned if you do, Damned if you dont"

It's too bad you wont decide to defend the American people, and instead decide to waste your time on that Anti-American idiot!

It's too bad you wont defend the Constitution of the United States, and instead, decide to defend policies that lead ot direct killing of American soldiers!

It's too bad you wont decide to defend your own children's futures, by protecting them agianst Fascism!

It's too bad your limited cognitive abilities wont allow you to have a conscience like GWB and wont protect this world against that same pyschosis!

[MAGI]

Gephardt said................
"I was wrong."

Author of the article below,
"Powerful, healing words, for those who have ears to hear them. Not everyone can say them yet, or with full conviction. Those who do still have to figure out what to tell the Gold Star Mom who wants to know her son died for a noble cause, as well as the Gold Star Mom who wants to know the troops are coming home."

.

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2005/10/gephardt_on_ira.html

[snowdog]

How bout using that vaunted "research Prowess" and show me the
51% MISERY index/poll rating? As I am a knucklehead, and need the
help of someone like you with your wisdom to help me see the folly of
my dumb "Republican" ways. I have asked you for that information no less
than half a dozen times up to this point.


Still waiting for your use of that Vaunted "research Prowess". Back what
you type up, or it just will keep coming out as Pointless rants.

[MAGI]

Gephardt said................
"I was wrong."

Author of the article below,
"Powerful, healing words, for those who have ears to hear them. Not everyone can say them yet, or with full conviction. Those who do still have to figure out what to tell the Gold Star Mom who wants to know her son died for a noble cause, as well as the Gold Star Mom who wants to know the troops are coming home."

.

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2005/10/gephardt_on_ira.html

:mad:

[Adolph]

It's too bad you wont decide to defend the American people, and instead decide to waste your time on that Anti-American idiot!


It is too bad that you are so prone to assuming things about people.



It's too bad you wont defend the Constitution of the United States, and instead, decide to defend policies that lead ot direct killing of American soldiers!


It is too bad that you have such a short memory and do not recall me defending a groups right to peacefull protest, a right which you seemed to want to ignore.

Where did I ever defend policies that led to the direct killing of American soldiers? Are you suggesting greatlady that because the President showed up at ground zero one day that that led to the direct killing of American soldiers?

That would be a great stretch of logic if that is what you are suggesting.

[Adolph]

It's too bad you wont decide to defend your own children's futures, by protecting them agianst Fascism!



Be carefull, you know what they say when you start assuming things about people----you end up making an ass out of u and me. ;)

[Adolph]

It's too bad your limited cognitive abilities wont allow you to have a conscience like GWB and wont protect this world against that same pyschosis!

Just couldn't help yourself could you there greatlady? You just had to sneak that little condescending insult in there. It is so typical of people of your ilk to resort to such tactics. :(

[Jane of Arc]

CINDY SHEEHAN R*O*C*K*S!!!

I don't think anything hurts more than losing a child.

Whether or not you agree with her, (she refuses to take sides with Republicans or Democrats, by the way ... she calls us all Americans) you have to admit that standing up to the government and demanding government accountability takes an enormous amount of courage!

[snowdog]

CINDY SHEEHAN R*O*C*K*S!!!

I don't think anything hurts more than losing a child.

Whether or not you agree with her, (she refuses to take sides with Republicans or Democrats, by the way ... she calls us all Americans) you have to admit that standing up to the government and demanding government accountability takes an enormous amount of courage!

What courage? standing up and voicing your opinion is one of our Constitutional
rights! that was fought for and many died for her to be "so brave". She
does mean well, I don't knock her for that, but where was her protest BEFORE
her son got killed?

[gratelady1]

Just couldn't help yourself could you there greatlady? You just had to sneak that little condescending insult in there. It is so typical of people of your ilk to resort to such tactics. :(

I really dont like coaching "would be opiners" on how to better conserve future opining crediblity, since I dont belive anyone here has any, but just a quick hint, try starting every counter post- with a quick and clear denial of the allegations made against you, thus it could be inferred by everyone- that you in fact may be innocent of that allegation, but when your first response is to attack the messenger, versus defending your stance- not very effective to the core of folk's belief of such stance- ask snowdog, the "Political science expert"....
Politics 101/rhetoric 101.

[snowdog]

I really dont like coaching "would be opiners" on how to better conserve future opining crediblity, since I dont belive anyone here has any, but just a quick hint, try starting every counter post- with a quick and clear denial of the allegations made against you, thus it could be inferred by everyone- that you in fact may be innocent of that allegation, but when your first response is to attack the messenger, versus defending your stance- not very effective to the core of folk's belief of such stance- ask snowdog, the "Political science expert"....
Politics 101/rhetoric 101.

Ummm Glady your the only one that makes the bizzare ALLEGATIONS. and
every one here on this forum only reply to your rants because its entertainment.
oh........I'm sorry maybe you thought anyone here took you seriously? LOL :D

[gratelady1]

Ummm Glady your the only one that makes the bizzare ALLEGATIONS. and
every one here on this forum only reply to your rants because its entertainment.
oh........I'm sorry maybe you thought anyone here took you seriously? LOL :D

Yes and if one messures the amount of time you "laugh" at the "entertainment"- which I call attacking/down-playing (trying to discredit), you can maybe, begin to understand, just how effective that "entertainment" really is.

[snowdog]

Yes and if one messures the amount of time you "laugh" at the "entertainment"- which I call attacking/down-playing (trying to discredit), you can maybe, begin to understand, just how effective that "entertainment" really is.

Oops glady1, You put quotes around the word LAUGH . I hope your not
saying that I said that. I just said you were entertainment. I don't find your
rantings very amusing ie, killing off the elderely, or wanting the pres to
shoot himself, that is not funny glady1, nor laughable. ;)

as for trying to discredit you, I only point out your falicies in your rants,

but I am still waiting for your vaunted research prowess to inform stupid ol.
cowardly me about the "51% misery index/poll rating".....guess that was
just more ranting huh? back up what your throwing out there...or just shut up.
your only discrediting yourself there lil missy.

[MAGI]

CINDY SHEEHAN R*O*C*K*S!!!

I don't think anything hurts more than losing a child.

Whether or not you agree with her, (she refuses to take sides with Republicans or Democrats, by the way ... she calls us all Americans) you have to admit that standing up to the government and demanding government accountability takes an enormous amount of courage!

Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!

[snowdog]

Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!


BUZZFLASH!!!How dare ANYONE call this IDIOT an American Hero, with the
likes of ROSA Parks just passing..... what kinda "Bravery" is it for The idiot
Cindy, to protest in front of hundreds of people that support her? Rosa
refused to give up seat !! in a time when she could of gotten killed for her
stance! as so many African-Americans DID! Cinday Sheehan is No AMERICAN
hero! sure her son was. but this idiot Cindy is NO hero. In the book of bravery,
ROSA PARKS Leads the way, and Cindy SHeehan wouldn't make a FOOTNOTE!
Hell, Bravery is GWB dealing with the THOUSANDS of CINDY SHEEHAN-like
idiots, voicing their opinions and GWB not being swayed by the idiots, and
holding his ground!! Now I guess the IDIOT CINDY is gonna chain herself to
the white house fence or whatever. LOL, bet she gets pissed on!!! :D

[MAGI]

Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!

MAY WE ALWAYS HAVE OUR RIGHTS!

[MAGI]

Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!

MAY WE ALWAYS HAVE OUR RIGHT TO EXPRESS OUR OPINION.

[snowdog]

MAY WE ALWAYS HAVE OUR RIGHT TO EXPRESS OUR OPINION.


We certainly do. I just question why in your eyes or view is Cindy Sheehan
so Brave? The freedoms fought and died for by thousands and thousands of
military members gave her the RIGHT to protest. There is NO bravery in her
actions. what has she done that makes her a hero, or a brave person?She is protected by the 1st amendment....and backed by the Democrates. As I said
in the last post. GWB has more than half the country against the war in Iraq,
and yet he will not succomb to them. because he BELIEVES in what he is doing. Doesn't make him right. but that is bravery. thats called MORAL COURAGE.
doing what a person feels is the right thing to do, even when others don't see
it that way. The Idiot Sheehan talks to a group of protestors that AGREE
with her. I ask again what courage or bravery is she demonstrating?

[MAGI]

GWB has more than half the country against the war in Iraq,
and yet he will not succomb to them. because he BELIEVES in what he is doing. Doesn't make him right. but that is bravery. thats called MORAL COURAGE.
doing what a person feels is the right thing to do, even when others don't see
it that way. The Idiot Sheehan talks to a group of protestors that AGREE
with her. I ask again what courage or bravery is she demonstrating?

Cindy has more MORALITY and COURAGE in her little fingernail than your hero has in his entire body!

Evidently she is being heard by the entire world and it is pretty evident that what she is saying makes a whole lot of sense. She doesn't need a fraudulent document to make her case!

I really don't much care about your opinion. We went to war based on false information and not one life or limb should have have been sacrificed in this ill- begotten Bush/Cheney and company .....Iraq War!

"Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributo...0/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!"

[Adolph]

"Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributo...0/con05398.html



Like Cindy, your link does not work.

[MAGI]

Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/10/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!
:)

[snowdog]

Cindy has more MORALITY and COURAGE in her little fingernail than your hero has in his entire body!

Evidently she is being heard by the entire world and it is pretty evident that what she is saying makes a whole lot of sense. She doesn't need a fraudulent document to make her case!

I really don't much care about your opinion. We went to war based on false information and not one life or limb should have have been sacrificed in this ill- begotten Bush/Cheney and company .....Iraq War!

"Here's to government accountability and Cindy's latest Buzzflash contribution.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributo...0/con05398.html

May this ALL come to light!"


again, I would like to ask, what courage or bravery is Cindy the idiot displaying?
Oh yea and seems to me a lot of Dems voted for the money to put into the war.
So its safe to assume that when you say"Bush/Cheney and company" It would
be the Democrates, such as Hilliary R Clinton. Is that correct?

[MAGI]

again, I would like to ask, what courage or bravery is Cindy displaying?
Oh yea and seems to me a lot of Dems voted for the money to put into the war.
So its safe to assume that when you say"Bush/Cheney and company" It would
be the Democrates, such as Hilliary R Clinton. Is that correct?

Principled Cindy Sheehan has the GUTS and morality to stand up to this bully regime in power!

Unfortunately the democrats in Washington believed the intelligence information Bushco was editing! :mad:

We now know how we were so unscrupulously deceived and manipulated on Iraq intelligence. I can't wait 'til EVERYTHING is on the table!

[snowdog]

Principled Cindy Sheehan has the GUTS and morality to stand up to this bully regime in power!

Unfortunately the democrats in Washington believed the intelligence information Bushco was editing! :mad:

We now know how we were so unscrupulously deceived and manipulated on Iraq intelligence. I can't wait 'til EVERYTHING is on the table!

Lets see her son reenlisted after the war started.......humm was he too one of
the decieved Democrates? Peace, Love, pretty flowers, John Lennon singing
"imagine". Mean while back in reality Saddam is butchering his own people,
Paying families by check when their son blows himself up and hundreds of
innocent civilians, He had threatened to use chemicals on his neighbors. The
majority of americans want US troops out of Iraq, as do I in a logical way.
All these people want peace, yet how many people, men women and children
are killed every day. right here in the USA. where are all the protestestors
for that! bunch of damn hypocrytes. thats not even talking about the abortion
issue.

[Jane of Arc]

Snowdog,

When I first saw Cindy Sheehan she sort of bugged me. Her whiny voice annoyed me. Knowing nothing about her, I quickly judged her as a media-grabbing rabble-rouser.

Then I did research. Now I "get it". I get why she's a Rosa Parks. And she is.

Through all your judgments you are not seeing who she is. You're not understanding the deep depression she was in. She was suicidal until her daughter challenged to DO something about her son's death rather than die.

You say you admire Bush because he stands up for what he believes in. Then understand Cindy Sheehan because so does she. It takes guts to walk out of your house driven by pure grief, drive yourself to the gates of the home of the President of the United States, tell the secret service men with big guns that you want to speak to the president and you won't leave until you do. And then follow through by sleeping in the ditch ... for days. If the media didn't notice her and put her picture out there ... who knows what would of happened to her?

Many people didn't agee with Rosa Parks. Due to death threats on her and her family she had to move from Montgomery to Detroit.

I understand after 23 years of military service anti-war, peace protestor's may not be your favorite people ... but it takes great courage to work for peace on this planet. You mocked John Lennon & "Imagine" but he's one of heros along with Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Mandela and Jesus Christ to name a few.

It takes great courage to talk truth to power.


PS- Being a man who served his country for 23 years doesn't Bush's "military service" during a war bother you? Why didn't he stand up for his beliefs and actually go to Nam rather than have his father get him the safest, cushiest place they could find?

[snowdog]

Snowdog,

When I first saw Cindy Sheehan she sort of bugged me. Her whiny voice annoyed me. Knowing nothing about her, I quickly judged her as a media-grabbing rabble-rouser.

Then I did research. Now I "get it". I get why she's a Rosa Parks. And she is.

Through all your judgments you are not seeing who she is. You're not understanding the deep depression she was in. She was suicidal until her daughter challenged to DO something about her son's death rather than die.

You say you admire Bush because he stands up for what he believes in. Then understand Cindy Sheehan because so does she. It takes guts to walk out of your house driven by pure grief, drive yourself to the gates of the home of the President of the United States, tell the secret service men with big guns that you want to speak to the president and you won't leave until you do. And then follow through by sleeping in the ditch ... for days. If the media didn't notice her and put her picture out there ... who knows what would of happened to her?

Many people didn't agee with Rosa Parks. Due to death threats on her and her family she had to move from Montgomery to Detroit.

I understand after 23 years of military service anti-war, peace protestor's may not be your favorite people ... but it takes great courage to work for peace on this planet. You mocked John Lennon & "Imagine" but he's one of heros along with Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Mandela and Jesus Christ to name a few.

It takes great courage to talk truth to power.


PS- Being a man who served his country for 23 years doesn't Bush's "military service" during a war bother you? Why didn't he stand up for his beliefs and actually go to Nam rather than have his father get him the safest, cushiest place they could find?

Yes, courage does come in many different forms. I don't hate Ms. Sheehan for
what she is doing, not at all, I just think (in my opinion) that her credibility is
not all there, She decided to protest, after her son was killed. where was she
when the war started? Yes, losing her son was sad, as it is to all parents, but
it took her son to get her involved in the anti-war protest? I find that questionable at best. Her son Re-enlisted AFTER, the war started. As for GWB,
first, that is you opinion about whether Bush41 got his son outta "NAM". Mr.
Clinton did the same. I cannot control what others do..... I only can do what I
feel is right. If GWB did serve in Nam.... would that change your view about
the Iraq war? I think not, so it is a moot point. whether GWB fought in vietnam
or the Gulf is insignificant. I did not serve in Vietnam, So I don't really like to
get into that as I feel it is disrespectful to do so. I wasn't there. I won't take
others opinions and go off about Vietnam with that, that is doing thousands of
military members a dishonor. If you were there, my respect to you If you weren't
then please don't jump on the bandwagon of others opinions on it. Let me ask
you this..... How often do we get on Pres Lincoln for not being in the Military while
he led the country during the civil War. was he NOT qualified to be president
during that time?

as for John Lennon, that is your opinion and it should be at least respected.
however. I don't like that fact that we think of John Lennon as a hero in the
peace department. He made alot of $$ off that song. As did that SOB
Lee Greenwood.........That is a man that I along with many informed vets...
despise.

[haus]

...Let me ask
you this..... How often do we get on Pres Lincoln for not being in the Military while
he led the country during the civil War. was he NOT qualified to be president
during that time?
...


I'm not trying to bust on you but this paragraph left me squinting and mumbling "Black Hawk" to myself.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln#Early_life:

"He [Lincoln] served as a captain in a company of the Illinois militia drawn from New Salem during the Black Hawk War, although he never saw combat. He wrote after being elected by his peers that he had not had 'any such success in life which gave him so much satisfaction.'"

So, yeah, if he had run away to join the Rhode Island Air Nat'l Guard, I would have kind of looked askance at him. :)

The argument that Bill did it, whether it's accurate or not, doesn't really mean anything. Bill's not the only democrat. Bill's not my barometer of ethics. Take the previous three democratic presidents: Carter, Johnson, and Kennedy. All war veterans.

[MAGI]

Cindy's diary entry after Libby's indictment:

"I was standing in front of the White House the other day when the indictments against Scooter were handed down. I was helping to hold a banner that said: Support our Troops: Bring Them Home Now.

When we received word of the indictments, many of us protestors outside the White House were cheering with happiness and relief. At last, someone could be held accountable for the lies that led our country into a disastrous invasion of Iraq. But I wasn't cheering. I put down my end of the banner and sat down on the curb and cried.

Scooter is just a lap dog for Cheney. He and this administration don't do anything unless the dirty deed is analyzed and planned for maximum damage to the offending party and minimum harm to Bush and Co. The criminals in power meant to hurt Joe Wilson and his family because Joe had the temerity and the audacity to call them liars: and to do it with such intelligence and alacrity was too much for the crooks to bear. If this crooked administration let Joe Wilson get away with telling the truth and calling them liars, then who would be next? Colin Powell? Judith Miller? The main stream media? (It could happen).

I cried because there are people in this world who have lied about smaller things and have been punished more harshly. I cried because there was a shill of the right near me holding a sign that read "Put Cindy in Abu Ghraib" when there are war criminals and immoral war profiteers running amok in our country. I cried because George, Dick, Condi, Colin, Alberto, Donald, Scooter, Paul, Karl, Judith, O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc., lied about the reasons for invading Iraq and because of their lies, my son, who rarely told anything but the truth, is dead.

The liars and lies that led the US to invade Iraq are legion and well documented. (Once, just for giggles, I put George Bush/Lies in a Google search and 272,000 references came up). The lies to maintain the occupation are the same. The liars are now starting to beat the war drum for invading Syria.

A mom whose son committed "accidental" suicide in Iraq about 7 "............

See the rest of this story:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/11/con05414.html

[Lionhearted]

The argument that Bill did it, whether it's accurate or not, doesn't really mean anything. Bill's not the only democrat. Bill's not my barometer of ethics. Take the previous three democratic presidents: Carter, Johnson, and Kennedy. All war veterans.
And I may be wrong on this, but I believe Clinton did eventually register for the draft only to have his birthday come up something like 305 or 315 in the lottery drawing. Just my 2 centavos.

[snowdog]

"He [Lincoln] served as a captain in a company of the Illinois militia drawn from Ne