[snowdog]

Now why in the world would the Canadians under Liberal Govt after 13 years...
why would they vote for a conservative leader? Oh this ought to be good.

[sweetpea]

The same reason the next Congressional elections will see some incumbents go.

citizens see power drunk govt. reps when they see it.

BTW I'm a republican. Hopefully these spendaholics will get tossed to the curb by fiscal conservatives in the primaries.

[snowdog]

I think its cute that the Canadian election won't be talked about. I guess
it kinda goes the opposite of what the liberals want so "keep that one in
the closet" lets not talk about that huh? :)

[Jane of Arc]

I think its cute that the Canadian election won't be talked about. I guess
it kinda goes the opposite of what the liberals want so "keep that one in
the closet" lets not talk about that huh? :)
What's to talk about snowdog? Canada is still a very liberal country. The legislature is still liberal. They still have national health care for all their citizens. They still are a peaceful nation that puts their money into a nice country rather than policing the world. They still have a low crime rate. They still have good schools. They protect a woman's right to choose what do with her body.

The new Prime Minister Stephen Harper ran a campaign focused on the economy, shirking ideology and hot-button social issues. He made it clear that despite his initial support for the war in Iraq, he would not send troops there.The election outcome, in fact, can be read as more of a rejection of Prime Minister Paul Martin's scandal-racked administration (sound familiar?) than an embrace of Harper's own modest agenda.

It sounds like the new Prime Minister wants good relations with Bush and the United States, but any Canadian prime minister has to keep a noticeable independence from the United States or he loses credibility in Canada.

And .... snowdog ... GAYS CAN MARRY IN CANADA!!!:p

[snowdog]

well Jane, BC is right above me. Lets see how bout the pig farmer in BC
with the 26 women he killed and buried, on his property. Oh yea, I cannot
speak for 2005, but, in 04 the crime rate was the same as Seattle...Van Couver

as for gays being married in Canada, SO. and when they come to the US and
their marriage isn't recognized?

The voters voted in a conservative Prime Minister. nuff said.

[Jane of Arc]

Snowdog, my furry friend ... :p

I have nothing against conservatives. A true conservative is an excellent balance to a liberal agenda. In the old days conservatives would rein in liberal spending on social programs. Conservatives warned against the build up of the military-industrial complex. (President Eisenhower) Conservatives use to be about small government and controlled spending.

What you fail to understand ... and I am determined to bang it into your head ... most of the Republican Party and some of the Democratic Party has been hijacked by Neocon fascist thugs.

Soon I or others will start a PNAC thread here to discuss further what is going on ... until you 'get it'.

[haus]

Let's hear it for the Palestinian Authority. They followed our lead and voted in a real bunch of right-wing religious fundamentalists... Huzzah!

[snowdog]

What you fail to understand ... and I am determined to bang it into your head ... most of the Republican Party and some of the Democratic Party has been hijacked by Neocon fascist thugs.

Soon I or others will start a PNAC thread here to discuss further what is going on ... until you 'get it'.

Ok, Jane could you please explain to me why you and several others call
the republican party "Neocon fascist thugs"? I would like to be enlightened
on that subject. Please explain it in FACTS....not Opinions. thank you :)

[littlebigman]

Now why in the world would the Canadians under Liberal Govt after 13 years...
why would they vote for a conservative leader? Oh this ought to be good.
y would u ask such a sukker question when u already know the answer iz that right or left ur whole capitalist soul sukking idea iz doomed, therefor the systems canadian or usa must keep toss'n the spent political salad bak and forth like a dog and pony pengelum swinging n curruption on both sides n order 2 keep the pps diverted and the BIG MEAN GREEN$ machines roll'n on 2 their manifest destinies:twisted: :eek:
wtf iz wrong wit u sd..? were u droped on ur lil pup head recently..?

[Jane of Arc]

Ok, Jane could you please explain to me why you and several others call
the republican party "Neocon fascist thugs"? I would like to be enlightened
on that subject. Please explain it in FACTS....not Opinions. thank you :)It would be my pleasure, O' Fuzzy Canine One!

First of all, I don't call the Republican Party that. I say it's been hijacked by Neocon Fascist Thugs. And if you read my posts carefully you'll see I throw quite a few Democrats into that pile. We need to have a thread started in this forum about the Neocons. What do think a Neocon is, snowdog?

Fact : We do not have:
(1) transparent (open to public scrutiny)
(2) verified (paper trail)
(3) universal (all states)
(4) honest (an independent oversight committee monitoring elections)
(5) publically owned (the vote is privitized because software/ hardware is owned by voting machine manufacturers and not available to the public) voting.

This is a bi-partisan issue. But the bottom line is until the federal government provides the American people with honest elections, it can ONLY be seen as undemocratic. When the power of a nation is NOT in the hands of The People, but in the hands of a few elite, you have fascism.

We are in serious times, snowdog, and I want you to REALLY think about what I'm saying. Many Republicans and Democrats are coming together on this issue because of the vast election fraud sweeping this country. In my state it is a Republican who got the ball rolling to protest the government ... and then Democrats followed.

[snowdog]

[QUOTE=Jane of Arc]It would be my pleasure, O' Fuzzy Canine One!

First of all, I don't call the Republican Party that. I say it's been hijacked by Neocon Fascist Thugs. And if you read my posts carefully you'll see I throw quite a few Democrats into that pile. We need to have a thread started in this forum about the Neocons. What do think a Neocon is, snowdog?

Fact : We do not have:
(1) transparent (open to public scrutiny)
(2) verified (paper trail)
(3) universal (all states)
(4) honest (an independent oversight committee monitoring elections)
(5) publically owned (the vote is privitized because software/ hardware is owned by voting machine manufacturers and not available to the public) voting.
QUOTE]


ummm Jane..... that was what I was asking you if you read my post, I wanted to know why you call the GWB administration (to include some Dems) Neocon facist
Pigs. So again could you please explain? :)

[Jane of Arc]

When the power of a nation is NOT in the hands of The People, but in the hands of a few elite, you have fascism.

[snowdog]

When the power of a nation is NOT in the hands of The People, but in the hands of a few elite, you have fascism.


ummm there is not one country that I am aware of that doesn't have some
form of facism. and that is going back to the Romans.

and what is a Neo Con and why do you refer to our current politicians as this?

[Jane of Arc]

ummm there is not one country that I am aware of that doesn't have some
form of facism. and that is going back to the Romans.

and what is a Neo Con and why do you refer to our current politicians as this?
Now we are getting someplace snowdog. Good point! Excellent!!! Just when I'm ready to give up on you ... again... you give me hope that we can reach understanding. I get so tired of the back and forth rhetoric of party lines. We all need to remember we're Americans first.

Yes. There have been very, very few democracies in the history of the world. The rule of the elite governing the masses in the form of monarchies, oligarchies, dictorships and theocracies has dominated humanity. That is why this chance at democracy from our brave forefathers is so precious. Is it perfect? Hell no.

But, it is threatened. It is threatened from the elites on the left and on the right. But the biggest threat is from a group that has hijacked the Republican Party and they are called Neo Conservatives (Neocons). They are members of a group called The Project for the New American Century (PNAC). I have studied their idealogy best illustrated in their September of 2000 paper entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century." Their goal is the establishment of a global American empire to bend the will of all nations and they don't care how they do it. They are imperialist and I don't say this lightly ... their techniques are fascist.

I was waiting for others to start a thread on PNAC, but if they don't I will soon. In the meantime snowdog, Google them and read as much as you can from all perspectives. Your party is in danger and Eisenhower is rolling over in his grave!

Speaking of Eisenhower, check out this trailer from a new award winning documentary that pits the "good Republicans" (Eisenhower, McCain) against the Neocons: http://www.moviecentre.net/upcomingmovies/trailer/movie_id_957.htm

I just want to add that the Chairman of PNAC is William Kristol and funding for PNAC comes from members of the Federalist Society. Initial funding for the Federalist Society came from the Institute for Educational Affairs, a group founded by Irving Kristol and William Simon. The elder Kristol remained an important funding adviser, while his son William Kristol became closely involved with the Federalist Society, by writing for its publications and speaking frequently at its gatherings. Other early funding came from Pittsburgh mogul Richard Mellon Scaife, the Olin Foundation, Bradley Foundation, and the Smith Richardson Foundation.

[snowdog]

Jane, I do not know much about the PNAC. I will be the first to admit it.
if it will produce honest fair elections, I am all for it. I wonder how much
it would cost, who (Dems or Rep) in there respective areas, etc.

and again what is a Neo Con, and why do you refer to members of our
Gov as such?

[Jane of Arc]

snowdog,

I just told you who Neocons were! Read my post again. And snowdog, get busy on this. Time is a' wasting! Your party needs you. If you admire John McCain or Dwight D. Eisenhower you won't like these people. Get back to me when you have a handle on PNAC, the Federal Society and Neocons. Okay? :)

[snowdog]

snowdog,

I just told you who Neocons were! Read my post again. And snowdog, get busy on this. Time is a' wasting! Your party needs you. If you admire John McCain or Dwight D. Eisenhower you won't like these people. Get back to me when you have a handle on PNAC, the Federal Society and Neocons. Okay? :)

I apologize there Jane, I read a bit more attentively you post. so I take
it that your thoughts about the "neo-cons" is Opinion Oriented? I respect that. any reason why my opinion is wrong? other than this being a progressive
web-site. like I mentioned before........in another thread. wouldn't the
democratic party feel stupid after spending the past 2.5 years calling Bush
a liar........what the hell is the Dem party leaders gonna do should they find
WMD? I would hate to be Nancy Peolosi, or Harry Reed. Or at this time
Hilliary CLinton..I say at this time because she will.....like John Kerry try to
be flexible and go with the popular thought at that moment. you know.....
a FLIP-FLOP!

[Jane of Arc]

snowdog,

You're 'barking' up the wrong tree. I am not a Democrat. I'm certainly not a Republican. I am an American citizen. I hold anyone in contempt who does one thing to damage MY county ... OUR country ... We The People's chance at democracy.

You talk about your background in this forum quite a bit. Please allow me to share a bit of mine.

I have a thirst and a quest for democracy that runs through my blood and is part of my DNA. I am a member of the Daughters of the American Revolution. My ancestors were some of the first to arrive in America to escape persecution. They died fighting British tyranny. These revolutionary family members are buried in the same plot of earth with their off-spring who fought in the Civil War because they opposed slavery. And there are more recent additions to our family graveyard from the Great Generation who gave their lives stopping fascism.

My family members were both Republican and Democrats, but all were more loyal to their country and their love of democracy than to any one party.

I will not allow generations of my family to die in vain because a small group of totalitarians can electronically steal an election!

I will not allow generations of my family to die in vain because a corrupt President decides he is above the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and can torture, imprison without legal counsel and illegally spy on American citizenry.

I will not allow generations of my family to die in vain because an arrogant group of elitist have hijacked our government. The enemy my family fought were the monarchs who invaded and occupied other nations for it's spoils ... the slave owners who imported human labor for mere profit ... the Nazi who invaded and occupied other nations for a totalitarian cause.

I find your continual Republican vs. Democrat bickering unproductive snowdog. As one American to another, I beseech you to have the courage to examine what is happening to your Republican Party. If you are a true American, and I believe you are, I don't understand why you are not as outraged as I am?

I hold anyone in contempt who does one thing to damage MY county ... OUR country ... We The People's chance at democracy. And so should you.

[snowdog]

I will not allow generations of my family to die in vain because a corrupt President decides he is above the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and can torture, imprison without legal counsel and illegally spy on American citizenry.

I will not allow generations of my family to die in vain because an arrogant group of elitist have hijacked our government. The enemy my family fought were the monarchs who invaded and occupied other nations for it's spoils ... the slave owners who imported human labor for mere profit ... the Nazi who invaded and occupied other nations for a totalitarian cause.

I find your continual Republican vs. Democrat bickering unproductive snowdog. As one American to another, I beseech you to have the courage to examine what is happening to your Republican Party. If you are a true American, and I believe you are, I don't understand why you are not as outraged as I am?

Umm again Jane.......I am an idnependant. as for courage, perhaps I am the one
showing courage in that I refuse to "go with the Crowd". as for your "I refuse"
lil speech. "I will not allow", look around you, and the milions of other Americans,
Yes, You, like the liberal politicians in fact are allowing GWB to do what he is
doing. Except the fact that GWB was elected President. 2 terms, its childish
to get into he cheated or whatever, both parties will go after it with whatever
it takes to get there, you know that, I know that. GWB and his staff, out-foxed
the Democrats. you don't like him, fine. thats your right. but Jesus H quit making up excuses as to why he is in office. He was elected president. John
Kerry was/is a flip flopping idiot! Perhaps if the Dems or greens or independants
put forth a better canidate maybe I would of not voted for GWB. but they didn't,
I like millions of other americans choose GWB because he was the better coice
over John Kerry. John Kerry stands for nothing. he goes with the popular public
opinion at the time chasing votes. whether GWB is right or wrong with his
policies I am greatful that GWB has stood his ground. I know where he stands
from the moment the sobs attacked us, to today. GWB has not flip flopped. Yes,
his approval ratings are low. he is constantly attacked by the left, but he hasn't
waivered. thats courage. John Kerry doesn't even come close when it comes to courage. I don't really like ALGORE all that much but he is hands down more
of a unwaivering person than John Kerry. You and most others here seem to think that GWB is more evil than Saddam Hussein. I Have seen what Saddam Hussien is like. attack Saddam, deplore what he has done the past 30 years!
He was a threat to US national security. I been to the gulf for both the wars.
Let me ask you this, If during the beginning, when we went in. why the hell was
John Kerry and Ted Kennedy all up in arms about the quality of our Chemical
Warfare gear? why the hell did they go after Bush for that? Because they were
worried for our troops that Saddam would use Chemical weapons! think about
that. Hell, that idiot Rep Mcdermit D-Wa ,stopped by by at our unit. and Begged
us to make sure that we had our chemical weapns clothing and detection gear,
that idiot, informed us that he felt that our chemical detection checks needed to be improved, (done More Frequently). Now why in the hell would he do that!!
perhaps in part because Saddam himself threatened to Us Chemical weapons!
You can read all the lil articles you want Jane. You can listen to all the rhetoric you want. I was there for both wars! what I witnessed, I like most of
my soldiers was enraged at the atrocities caused by saddam hussein. I was
beside myself when we didn't go in after Saddam back in 91. I don't need some columnist from the "GUARDIAN" TO TELL ME WHAT HE/SHE THINKS. CAUSE i
HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. I AM BOUND BY LAW TO PRETTY MUCH KEEP
MY MOUTH SHUT. You, are in my opinion a decent person, our conversations
are informative to me. But I'm telling you, there are things that your lil reporters
have not reported. because according to the guy in our unit. Their boss didn't
want them too. You Jane are not being given the full side of everything. I don't
claim to be overly intelligent.......But I know what I say, whether your a christian,
Muslim, or Hindo. I respect other cultures, but what went on over there,
was WRONG. Seldom does the press report the atrocities. or the Fears. You get
your news form your opinions from columnist, the opposing political party, etc.
I got my knowledge from witnessing it. I am an American Soldier. I WILL NOT
ALLOW MY country to be threatened. by a ruthless dictator, I will NOT allow
my fellow soldiers to die in vain in 1991 so that several countries of the UN can
make money! I WILL NOT ALLOW, some punk sitting at a desk to call my fellow
soldiers terrorist, baby killers, or anything like that. I will not Allow some radical
nut, kill thousands of my fellow innocent americans. I will not allow an extremeist attack my peoples because of our culture, Some of my fellow americans are homosexuals, these Muslim extremist hate us for that! I will
fight for our values, beliefs, I URGE you TO get away from YOUR desk, and
wake up!! People talk about immorality, yet I don't see our country banning
together to save a 5 year old girl from being molested by some freak, or a wife
from being battered by her husband AGAIN! you want to make this place better.
how bout YOU start just down YOUR street?

[Jane of Arc]

Oh, enough hyperbole on both of our parts. We should just stick to the issues.

Snowdog, I see you changed your party affinity to "Independent." Cool. But you shouldn't be shy to state that you're a Conservative ... unless you're having doubts
about George W. Vader and the Imperial Empire. http://www.rightwingnews.com/graphics/bushvader.jpg If so ... use the FORCE snowdog, use the FORCE!

[snowdog]

Jane I have stated all along that I feel I am a conservative Independant.
today when I notice it said republican......I got into my profile to change it
for whatever reason the conservative wouldn't come up. I originally wrote
republican because, truth be known I am registered as republican because of
wa state law. That was outta my control. you can take that up with the
Wa state democratic legislature.