[Jane of Arc]

This is not working out. We have tried and tried ... even been to counseling, but all we do is fight. I don't like your friends. You don't like my friends. God knows, we don't have the same values. I find you completely irresponsible with money. You spend and spend and spend, while our house and our lives are falling apart. I want to save money, get healthcare and pay for our kid's education ... but you ... you're out there borrowing money from the neighbors! I can't take it anymore.

And you're so warlike. When things don't go your way ... you drop a bomb! You threaten! No diplomacy what-so-ever. You say I don't understand, "there are people out there that want to kill us." Well, that may be true. But look what you did! You set up hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of your weirdo "bases" on other people's property. You started policing the neighborhood like a wacko. Just put yourself in their shoes ... can't you see you're making them nervous? Why do you need that HUGE arsenal of weapons if you're a peaceful man?! None of our neighbors have friggin' arsenals like that. You're scaring everybody half to death.

You use to be strong and good and decent, but now you're just an arrogant bully. And if you really wanted to protect your family like you say you do, you'd secure our doors and windows and put in an alarm system. You wouldn't leave our windows and doors wide open and unprotected. That's why this is so crazy, because anybody can walk right in! You really don't care if your family's protected and you really don't care if the whole neighborhood loathes us and wants to kill us.

You've become abusive. You were never the type of man who would hurt me, but now you think you have the right to torture me. You've even started spying on me! I don't trust you at all since you've 'gotten religion' and believe you're doing "the work of God". You're a scary control freak. So, that's it! I WANT A DIVORCE! I'm TAXED beyond belief and I have nothing to show for it. I will be better off on my own.

We'll divide things up equally. Fifty-fifty. You take the south, midwest and heartland where your family lives. And I'll take the east coast, northern Great Lakes region and west coast. We'll have our lawyers draw it up so everything is fair and equal. We'll also split up the miltary and the debt equally.



The only thing keeping me together is thinking about how wonderful the future will be. If I work hard, I can pay off my debt and fix up the house. I'll finally be able to have good relationships with all my neighbors and we'll respect each other's boundaries. They will be thrilled that I divorced you. And I'll make sure my home is a real democracy. Everyone will have an equal vote that's openly counted. No more secrets. And seeing that I'll no longer have a wacko husband spending the families savings on weapons, we can finally get healthcare and everyone can go to college. We'll make our home a healthy, happy environment that respects everyone's rights. And most of all, they'll be no more angry fighting, killing, torture and war. That's what keeps me going. Because I know it's possible to have a family that lives in peace.

[-V-]

American woman, you should have married Al Gore!

http://progressivesonline.com/election/americanwoman.wmv

[-V-]

btw, when i put together the American Woman video those are all the things i wanted to say from the same perspective but i had to figure out a way to do it in 30 seconds (for Moveon's Bush In 30 Seconds contest).

Well done Jane!

[sweetpea]

Who gets Hawaii? How about Guam and Puerto Rico? Who gets DC?

Do you figure that the Midwesterners and Southerners are just so horrible that you want to segregate?

sounds kinda like 1862 all over again. I thought Progressives were forward thinking.

[Jane of Arc]

Who gets Hawaii? How about Guam and Puerto Rico? Who gets DC?Oh, it doesn't matter. Our lawyers can work it out fairly. Seeing that we have California, which is sort of tropical ... you guys can have Hawaii. We can take PR, Guam and the USVI's ... seeing that I sail yachts. :) DC would be in our part of the country. You may want to put your capital in a safer place anyway. Like maybe Topeka? But, if you feel strongly about keeping DC, maybe we can work out a way to share it.

Do you figure that the Midwesterners and Southerners are just so horrible that you want to segregate? No not at all. There are wonderful people here. I live in Tennessee and it would be sad to have to move. Things are much "simpler" here compared to when I lived in NYC. But, the education is definitely behind. And people have to struggle hard to support their families, so there's not a lot of time to intellectually probe events. They just go along from paycheck to paycheck and get their news from Fox. Most Tennesseans polled here honestly believe that Iraqi terrorists attacked us on 9-11 and that's why we're over there fighting them. I kid you not. But, they are sweet people who would give you the shirt off their backs. It's a rough one. They're naturally "patriotic" and don't want to cause waves and keep it simple. They don't ever honk their car horns. Ever. Even as someone is crashing into them.

sounds kinda like 1862 all over again. I thought Progressives were forward thinking.No, it's different. It's more like 1773. If I am taxed everytime I turn around ... and I am ... I want representation. I am getting NOTHING for my money ... but more debt ... more war ... more enemies. Many parallels could be brought between the present military-industrial complex and the East India Company. It was on the verge of bankruptcy and to save the company the government passed the Tea Act of 1773. The legislation gave this early corporation the right to export it's merchandise directly to the colonies without paying any of the regular taxes that were imposed on the colonial merchants. Sound familiar? It's our present "free trade" policy.

[Mr. Magoo]

What planet are you from Jane?

"You spend and spend and spend, while our house and our lives are falling apart."
"I'm TAXED beyond belief and I have nothing to show for it."

What???? You can thank DEMOCRATS for your taxes. You know what you have to show for it? Welfare,food stamps,subsidized housing etc.

"But look what you did! You set up hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of your weirdo "bases" on other people's property. You started policing the neighborhood like a wacko."

Yeah that's right, All these U.S. bases were put on foreign soil in the last 6 years. And we were never the world's police. Hello??? earth to Jane.

"That's why this is so crazy, because anybody can walk right in! You really don't care if your family's protected and you really don't care if the whole neighborhood loathes us and wants to kill us."

Yeah, our borders were sealed shut during the Clinton years. And we weren't loathed and noone wanted to kill us....BTW..who was in office during the first attack on TWC? how about the attack on USS Cole? Who was behind these attacks? But, your right they just now,in the past 6 years started to despise us.

"You've become abusive. You were never the type of man who would hurt me, but now you think you have the right to torture me."

This statement is just plain BULLSH*T...Give a name of an American that has been tortured.

"The only thing keeping me together is thinking about how wonderful the future will be. If I work hard, I can pay off my debt and fix up the house. I'll finally be able to have good relationships with all my neighbors and we'll respect each other's boundaries."

Again, I guess there was never a deficit until Bush. And all the countries of the world LOVED us. Are you there Jane, It's earth again, come in !!!!

"And most of all, they'll be no more angry fighting, killing, torture and war."

I guess your pinning, WWI,WWII,Vietnam, Korea, The civil war etc. on Bush. Hello???? There were wars before Bush and there will be wars after. Your liberal utopian veiw is unbelievable.

"We'll divide things up equally. Fifty-fifty. You take the south, midwest and heartland where your family lives. And I'll take the east coast, northern Great Lakes region and west coast. We'll have our lawyers draw it up so everything is fair and equal."

I have a better idea. How about all the liberals move to France. I live in NJ.

"We'll also split up the miltary and the debt equally."

Why would you need a military? I thought there would be no more "angry fighting,killing,torture and war"? That makes no sense to me..please explain the need for a military in your new world.

"I'll no longer have a wacko husband spending the families savings on weapons, we can finally get healthcare and everyone can go to college."

That's right, while Clinton was slashing military spending, and in the process weakening us, everyone in the U.S. had healthcare and everyone was able to go to college. I'd like to see just ONE fact to back up some of this bullsh*t your spewing.

I do agree with you on the divorce. You can move to France,and you get FULL custody of all the other liberals in America.

[Jane of Arc]

What planet are you from Jane?There you go ... talking down to me again! That's one of the reasons I want this divorce! You think you have all the answers ... and what I think doesn't matter.


What???? You can thank DEMOCRATS for your taxes. You know what you have to show for it? Welfare,food stamps,subsidized housing etc.Sorry dear. I balanced the budget during the 8 years I had control over the checkbook and our family had a SURPLUS! And when you took over ... you blew it all! We are now in serious debt, on the verge of bankruptcy and losing our house. You call yourself a "conservative" ... but you spend like a DRUNK SAILOR! And when I had control we HAD no problem with social services. We could take care of our friends in need ... give them a hand up ... AND still have plenty of money for us.



Yeah that's right, All these U.S. bases were put on foreign soil in the last 6 years. And we were never the world's police. Hello??? earth to Jane.There you go again with that Archie Bunker "earth to Jane" condescension again. You don't have to talk to me that way, ya' know? BUT ... I agree with you. I was also responsible for putting all those bases around the world. We were full of oursleves after WWII. Eisenhower warned us of the military-industrial complex. He was dead right.


Yeah, our borders were sealed shut during the Clinton years. And we weren't loathed and noone wanted to kill us....BTW..who was in office during the first attack on TWC? how about the attack on USS Cole? Who was behind these attacks? But, your right they just now,in the past 6 years started to despise us.I agree with you. I could of done something about securing the doors and windows ... so I am responsible as well. But you see ... this is where you and I started to fall apart. After 9-11 ... I didn't want a war! I wanted the police to take care of it ... like they've done successfully in Europe for years. England has now normal relations with the Irish. It works! That's when YOU WENT BONKERS!!! That's when your testosterone went wacky! That's when everybody ... not just a handfull of neighbors ... but the WHOLE community started to fear you as a threat. Why can't you see that?


This statement is just plain BULLSH*T...Give a name of an American that has been tortured.There ya' go with the anger again. The police are in the processing right now of creating a list. You're secret torture spots don't make it easy.

I guess your pinning, WWI,WWII,Vietnam, Korea, The civil war etc. on Bush. Hello???? There were wars before Bush and there will be wars after. Your liberal utopian veiw is unbelievable.I half agree. WWII was an essential war. Our house was attacked. And I don't think you're completely to blame for our other fighting. I have made mistakes too. But, what I'm saying is I want to stop the wars. I can't live like this anymore. You say I want Utopia? You bet I do. It is not impossible to live in peace and only ... ONLY go to war if someone attacks our house. I don't want you running around the neighborhood attacking people you suspect may hurt us. Let the police do their job!!!


I have a better idea. How about all the liberals move to France. I live in NJ.This is my house too. My family has lived in this house since the founding of the country. I'm not going anywhere.


Why would you need a military? I thought there would be no more "angry fighting,killing,torture and war"? That makes no sense to me..please explain the need for a military in your new world.Because if I have half of your weapons ... you will be less of a threat.


I do agree with you on the divorce. You can move to France,and you get FULL custody of all the other liberals in America.Yes ... a divorce is the best I feel. But, I'm not going anywhere. You can feel free to move out and live in another right-wing military power like ... the Soviet Union. They'd have plenty of space for you. And they love spying. A perfect match.

[Jane of Arc]

I'll say it again ILoveBush (as I have in several threads) ... Welcome Aboard! We need the conservative voice here ... and hopefully we can have some productive discussion.

This post is a type of satire ... to demonstrate the great divide in America between it's people. It's from the liberal pespective, because this is a liberal online forum. My purpose is to boil down politics to the human condition ... a simple relationship.

So, I have an idea. We can act it out as a couple getting divorced. You already started. Thanks. My response is below.

[-V-]

hellooooo, like the man said "earth to jane!!!"

any guidance counselor would tell you to walk away from an abusive relationship.
that once, is enough. when a man strikes you don't give them a second chance

yet there you are, again welcoming someone by the name of ilovebush when after you welcomed him the first time with open, unjudging arms and scolded me for not doing the same, he beat you down, real Republican style, talking down to you like you are a clueless dumb blonde who should "move to france" if you can't cut it in a country where machismo rules!

yeah, HeLovesBush -- you're thing and this president but he has no desire to listen to or communicate with strong independant women on his level.

[Mr. Magoo]

-V-, since when do you speak for me? I may have been condacending,does that remind you of anyone? I will listen to everything Jane has to say. She was right, I was getting a little angry while writing that reply.

I know it was a satire, But it was so devoid of facts. And I got the impression that she was blaming everything on Bush. When in reality, all of this started long before him and will likely be here long after. I just don't like when liberals spew their rhetoric without any facts to back it up. I am open to any and all discussion. But, remember, the anger filled condecending posts come from BOTH sides. And the personal attack was started by a liberal...YOU !!!!!

[-V-]

jane, your first post, the one you deleted. was it your gut reaction? did you think twice, clean it up, make it more liberal, more politically correct, show compassion? don't kid yourself -- he didn't do the same for you!

a little parable

a movie called The Last Supper came out in 1995, starring Cameron Diaz and other young actors. It is about a group of idealistic liberals who succumb to the temptation to invite rightwing pundits to dinner, one by one, and serve them poison wine in a quest to make the world a better place.

In the last scene, they have the worst limbaugh like fathead over for dinner and they ask him, if he had the chance to murder Hitler would he do it? He paused, and said to their surprise, no, he would try to change Hitler instead of stooping to his level because the only real hope for the world is in communication.

Impressed, they excused themselves from the table to discuss changing their mind about serving him the wine from the poison bottle. Meanwhile, he spots something in the room that identifies the group with the murder spree. They come back, drink a toast, and drop dead, because he switched the bottles in their absence...

[Jane of Arc]

Okay guys ... now simmer down.

Let's continue with the "satire" and see who's right. Am I a fool to try to talk to someone called "ILoveBush" (ignoring the obvious double entendre :eek: ) and will we stay a divided nation? Or can we have a civil dialogue that doesn't result in splitting the country in two? We can introduce 'facts' as we go ... but my main interest was just to get civil dialogue going with someone very opposite of me.

So, ILB, please respond to my post. Thanks. :)

[Mr. Magoo]

Sorry dear. I balanced the budget during the 8 years I had control over the checkbook and our family had a SURPLUS! And when you took over ... you blew it all! We are now in serious debt, on the verge of bankruptcy and losing our house. You call yourself a "conservative" ... but you spend like a DRUNK SAILOR! And when I had control we HAD no problem with social services. We could take care of our friends in need ... give them a hand up ... AND still have plenty of money for us.

I'm not talking about social services. I think we "help" people too much as it is. You said everyone had healthcare and was able to go to college.That's not true.




I didn't want a war! I wanted the police to take care of it ... like they've done successfully in Europe for years.

What police? the U.N.? they have bombings and attacks in Europe also.


There ya' go with the anger again. The police are in the processing right now of creating a list. You're secret torture spots don't make it easy.

Creating a list of AMERICANS? Or people who live in America but want to destroy us?

It is not impossible to live in peace and only ... ONLY go to war if someone attacks our house.

I believe our house was attacked on 9/11/01 !!!

This is my house too. My family has lived in this house since the founding of the country. I'm not going anywhere.

You don't have to leave, But you ain't getting NJ.

Because if I have half of your weapons ... you will be less of a threat.

Less of a threat? You said there would be NO war !!!!!

[Jane of Arc]

I'm not talking about social services. I think we "help" people too much as it is. You said everyone had healthcare and was able to go to college.That's not true.Time for some facts. Every household needs a budget. You spend way, way, way, way too much on weapons and war. If we cut our budget in HALF and spent only 210 billion on the military, which is still almost 4 times what China spends to protect their enormous population, we would have enough money for healthcare, college and the general welfare for everyone in our family! Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

Our military budget is approx. equal to the combined budgets of all industrialized nations! What the hell for? Could war be big business? Who benefits from these wars?

Source: U.S. Military, Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, February 6, 2006

United States -- 420.7 billion 43%
China*------------ 62.5 billion 6%
Russia* 61.9 billion 6%
United Kingdom 51.1 billion 5%
Japan 44.7 billion 4%
France 41.6 billion 4%
Germany 30.2 billion 3%
India 22 billion 2%
Saudi Arabia 21.3 billion 2%
South Korea 20.7 billion 2%
Italy 17.2 billion 2%
Australia 13.2 billion 1%
Brazil 13.1 billion 1%
Canada 10.9 billion 1%
Turkey 9.8 billion 1%
Israel* 9.7 billion 1%
Netherlands 9.7 billion 1%
Spain 8.8 billion 1%
Taiwan 8.3 billion 1%
Indonesia* 7.6 billion 1%
Myanmar 6.9 billion 1%
Ukraine* 6 billion 1%
Singapore 5.6 billion 1%
Sweden 5.6 billion 1%
North Korea* 5.5 billion 1%


What police? the U.N.? they have bombings and attacks in Europe also.The CIA and the FBI with a small military special force contingent should of gone after the group of people responsible for the 9-11 attacks. Please ty to understand this ... WE DID NOT HAVE TO GO TO WAR. Especially against a COUNTRY THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11. Many European countries have had terrorist attacks for years and they go after the culprits using their police ... but only the United States uses our entire military and goes to war ... on the wrong country.


I believe our house was attacked on 9/11/01 !!! Yes it was. It was attacked by the "Johnson family", but "you" :) in your momentary insanity burned down and are still occupying the "Osborne's house".


You don't have to leave, But you ain't getting NJ.You can't stay in New Jersey. Sorry. It's a liberal state. You'd be much happier in Texas where there are more people like yourself who love Bush. You'll adjust. Okay? Don't be mad. I'll have to leave Tennessee and move back home to the NJ/NYC area. :sunny:

Less of a threat? You said there would be NO war !!!!If the liberal part of the country has half the weapons ... the whole world will be safer from the Neocons. We will ONLY go to war to protect our sovereignty, if attacked by another country, not a handful of terrorists.

[Mr. Magoo]

What a Bullsh*t site this is. Evidently when a tough question is posed to the founder of the site, it doesn't get answered, it gets DELETED !!! -V-, why did you delete my post on the death penalty issue? It's hard to have an open honest discussion when a liberal who runs the site can arbitrarily delete questions that he does not want to answer. I'll ask again for a third time. You called Bush a murderer. The U.S. soldiers are carrying out HIS orders. Doesn't that make them murderers in your eyes? Liberals CLAIM to support the troops and not the war. If true, then you support murderes,CORRECT????? I sure hope you choose to answer the question this time rather than delete it !!!!!!

[Mr. Magoo]

"Our military budget is approx. equal to the combined budgets of all industrialized nations! What the hell for? Could war be big business? Who benefits from these wars?"

Because we have always been and always will be the world's police. Also, because we are the world's super power. When other counties need help, who do they look to? France? Please. China? NO. Russia? don't think so. It is always the good ol U.S.A that bails everyone else out.

"Many European countries have had terrorist attacks for years and they go after the culprits using their police ... but only the United States uses our entire military and goes to war ... on the wrong country."

You just watched "Munich" didn't you?

"Yes it was. It was attacked by the "Johnson family", but "you" in your momentary insanity burned down and are still occupying the "Osborne's house".


So Saddam wasn't a threat? It's called going on the offensive. If you recall there were ALOT of liberal politicians that are quoted saying saddam IS a threat and must be dealt with. They are too numerous to list here.

"You can't stay in New Jersey. Sorry. It's a liberal state. You'd be much happier in Texas where there are more people like yourself who love Bush. You'll adjust. Okay? Don't be mad. I'll have to leave Tennessee and move back home to the NJ/NYC area. "

I'm trying my best to change that. It kills me to live in a "blue" state.

"If the liberal part of the country has half the weapons ... the whole world will be safer from the Neocons. We will ONLY go to war to protect our sovereignty, if attacked by another country, not a handful of terrorists."

So, there is still a chance of war. I thought you said there would be no more "angry fighting, torture or war". But you admit there COULD still be!!! Trust me, if a land occupied by a bunch of liberals were attacked, it would be a massacre. Liberals don't have the backbone to fight!!!!

I'm still all for your idea. I just don't wanna leave Jersey. Other than it being run into the ground by liberal government, it has always been MY home and always will !!!!

[haus]

Liberals don't have the backbone to fight!


I have a feeling I'll enjoy this one. Tell me, O Wise One, why you think I don't have the backbone to fight?

I think FDR's gonna be listening pretty carefully to your response, too.

[-V-]

What a Bullsh*t site this is. Evidently when a tough question is posed to the founder of the site, it doesn't get answered, it gets DELETED !!! -V-, why did you delete my post on the death penalty issue? It's hard to have an open honest discussion when a liberal who runs the site can arbitrarily delete questions that he does not want to answer. I'll ask again for a third time. You called Bush a murderer. The U.S. soldiers are carrying out HIS orders. Doesn't that make them murderers in your eyes? Liberals CLAIM to support the troops and not the war. If true, then you support murderes,CORRECT????? I sure hope you choose to answer the question this time rather than delete it !!!!!!

Several corrections.
-This is not your 3rd demand on the issue, it's your 4th.
-Your posts were not deleted.
They were moved to the thread below where they belong
with about 20 answers, including mine, to that line of questioning.
http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=334
-Your contributions make this more of a Bushshit site a than Bullsh*t site.

If you follow the flashing "merge left" arrows on the homepage they will lead you to all the new posts and a more enlightened life!

[Jane of Arc]

ILB,

Okay, a few things ... (1) you have to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine - this much rage and hatred isn't good for your heart, your mind or your spirit (2) you have to start using the "quote option", it's on the top center when you're typing your rants - your posts are hard to read and we don't want to miss a word you say (3) yes, the divorce is still on.


Because we have always been and always will be the world's police. Also, because we are the world's super power. When other counties need help, who do they look to? France? Please. China? NO. Russia? don't think so. It is always the good ol U.S.A that bails everyone else out.Are you aware of the disaster in Darfur, Sudan? There is a genocide taking place. Why isn't the good ol USA bailing these people out?




You just watched "Munich" didn't you?No. I have not seen the movie.


So Saddam wasn't a threat? It's called going on the offensive. If you recall there were ALOT of liberal politicians that are quoted saying saddam IS a threat and must be dealt with. They are too numerous to list here. Saddam was NOT a threat. You drank the kool-aid, dear. Most of those "liberal" politicians who voted for the war are just as corrupt as the Regressives.

(Notice how I can criticize liberals. See how that works. I am not blinded by party loyalty or blinded by nationalism. That's when fascism kicks in and fascism is scary sh*t. We need to straighten you out before you start goosestepping around the yard. :) )



I'm trying my best to change that. It kills me to live in a "blue" state.Sorry. I know how you feel. With so many dumbass rednecks in Tennessee, it isn't a picnic for me either.



Trust me, if a land occupied by a bunch of liberals were attacked, it would be a massacre. Liberals don't have the backbone to fight!!!! Are you calling all the good, liberal men and women that serve our country in the military cowards?



I'm still all for your idea. I just don't wanna leave Jersey. Other than it being run into the ground by liberal government, it has always been MY home and always will !!!!Yes, the divorce is on. I am trying to get through to you that liberals are NOT the enemy. You sound exactly like that un-American fascist, Rush Limbaugh. That man doesn't have a patriotic bone in his body. All that addict does is make money off of dividing this nation. I am not a fan of any radio broadcast, including Air America, who's purpose it is to benefit from Americans fighting Americans.

Okay, if you insist on still staying in New Jersey I won't make you leave on two conditions ... (1) you balance listening to right-wing hate radio with listening/ watching Democracy Now! (2) you can tell me 3 goods things about the liberal perspective. Can you?

[Mr. Magoo]

Okay, a few things ... (1) you have to calm down and take your blood pressure medicine - this much rage and hatred isn't good for your heart, your mind or your spirit (2) you have to start using the "quote option", it's on the top center when you're typing your rants - your posts are hard to read and we don't want to miss a word you say (3) yes, the divorce is still on.

Thanks for the quote tip. I do have a lot of anger. I realize Bush is not perfect. He has made his share of mistakes. I did not drink any kool-aid. I don't like all the dumping on and piling on that liberals are so good at. Do you guys look at Clinton,Kerry,Kennedy,Dean with the same critical eye?

Are you aware of the disaster in Darfur, Sudan? There is a genocide taking place. Why isn't the good ol USA bailing these people out?

Yes, I am aware. Our military is currently busy. Maybe it's time for another country to step up. I suggest France.

Are you calling all the good, liberal men and women that serve our country in the military cowards?

Are there liberals in the military?

Yes, the divorce is on. I am trying to get through to you that liberals are NOT the enemy. You sound exactly like that un-American fascist, Rush Limbaugh. That man doesn't have a patriotic bone in his body. All that addict does is make money off of dividing this nation. I am not a fan of any radio broadcast, including Air America, who's purpose it is to benefit from Americans fighting Americans.

I disagree. Liberals are an enemy. They undermine this country.
Please, Rush Limbaugh? How about Bill Maher or Al Franken or Michael Moore? They are just as divisive as anyone on the right.

Okay, if you insist on still staying in New Jersey I won't make you leave on two conditions ... (1) you balance listening to right-wing hate radio with listening/ watching Democracy Now! (2) you can tell me 3 goods things about the liberal perspective. Can you?

I already do # 1. I watch,listen to and read liberal stuff as much as I do right wing stuff. How do you think I found this site?

Sorry, #2 I CANNOT DO !!!! I'M AT A LOSS !!!!!

[-V-]

dividing this nation. I am not a fan of any radio broadcast, including Air America, who's purpose it is to benefit from Americans fighting Americans.

Jane you poo poo "dividing" and "fighting" yet you are in the middle of a "divorce". Americans fighting fighting Americans in the political arena is fine by me as long it is waged with words rather than instruments of death.

The airwaves are the medium of that struggle that reaches out to the people who wouldn't normally pay attention, and certainly have no patience or aptitude for Democracy Now or NPR.

Many started tuning into a fat man on radio that didn't pull any punches -- who was "wrong but strong", and they liked it.

Combating "ditto heads" with NPR is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is all unpleasant. But if liberals are going to be afraid of getting their hands dirty all poor and middle class Americans will continue to be the "battered wife" in this relationship.

Under U.S. marriage laws, you can divorce and move out of the house. But there is no escape from the political conflict. You two don't have to sleep together any more. But you do have to figure out a way to share the bathroom, kitchen, and living room without killing each other.

Good luck!

[haus]

Are there liberals in the military?


Well, there's me, for one. Though I went from active duty to the reserves two years ago.

How about General Clark? He ran for the Democratic nomination in '04, and is widely believed to be planning to run again in '08.

How about Major Tammy Duckworth? She flew Blackhawks in Iraq, came home missing 3 limbs, and is running in IL-06.

How about the 56 other vets running for Congress in the Democratic Party? Here's the list. (http://www.bandofbrothers2006.org/congress/)

[Mr. Magoo]

Quote:
Are there liberals in the military?

Well, there's me, for one. Though I went from active duty to the reserves two years ago.

How about General Clark? He ran for the Democratic nomination in '04, and is widely believed to be planning to run again in '08.

How about Major Tammy Duckworth? She flew Blackhawks in Iraq, came home missing 3 limbs, and is running in IL-06.

How about the 56 other vets running for Congress in the Democratic Party? Here's the list.

Relax Haus, I was only kidding. Sorry I forgot to put the little smiley face next to it !!!!

[sweetpea]

Oh, it doesn't matter. Our lawyers can work it out fairly. Seeing that we have California, which is sort of tropical ... you guys can have Hawaii. We can take PR, Guam and the USVI's ... seeing that I sail yachts. :) DC would be in our part of the country. You may want to put your capital in a safer place anyway. Like maybe Topeka? But, if you feel strongly about keeping DC, maybe we can work out a way to share it.

No not at all. There are wonderful people here. I live in Tennessee and it would be sad to have to move. Things are much "simpler" here compared to when I lived in NYC. But, the education is definitely behind. And people have to struggle hard to support their families, so there's not a lot of time to intellectually probe events. They just go along from paycheck to paycheck and get their news from Fox. Most Tennesseans polled here honestly believe that Iraqi terrorists attacked us on 9-11 and that's why we're over there fighting them. I kid you not. But, they are sweet people who would give you the shirt off their backs. It's a rough one. They're naturally "patriotic" and don't want to cause waves and keep it simple. They don't ever honk their car horns. Ever. Even as someone is crashing into them.

No, it's different. It's more like 1773. If I am taxed everytime I turn around ... and I am ... I want representation. I am getting NOTHING for my money ... but more debt ... more war ... more enemies. Many parallels could be brought between the present military-industrial complex and the East India Company. It was on the verge of bankruptcy and to save the company the government passed the Tea Act of 1773. The legislation gave this early corporation the right to export it's merchandise directly to the colonies without paying any of the regular taxes that were imposed on the colonial merchants. Sound familiar? It's our present "free trade" policy.


THat is sooooooo nice of you to be the intellectual one there in Tennessee. I'm sure those wimpletons and hicks at Vanderbilt U. really appreciate your condescencion.

What is really troubling is that you acually beleive what you are saying. Let me paraphrase and you tell me where I am wrong. The dumbasses in TN have it bad, but they are just too stupid to know it. Why if they lived like New Yorkers they could pay much more in taxes and have crappier weather, but they would be better off because everyone is sooo smart in NY. That about it?

[sweetpea]

What a Bullsh*t site this is. Evidently when a tough question is posed to the founder of the site, it doesn't get answered, it gets DELETED !!! -V-, why did you delete my post on the death penalty issue? It's hard to have an open honest discussion when a liberal who runs the site can arbitrarily delete questions that he does not want to answer. I'll ask again for a third time. You called Bush a murderer. The U.S. soldiers are carrying out HIS orders. Doesn't that make them murderers in your eyes? Liberals CLAIM to support the troops and not the war. If true, then you support murderes,CORRECT????? I sure hope you choose to answer the question this time rather than delete it !!!!!!
-

It gets better.

Wait 'til Buzzflash and vague references to documentaries are psoted as gospel.

[Jane of Arc]

Oh go chase a car.

OR

You could talk about an issue rather than do personal attacks. My ankles are bit up and sore. Shoo!

Peace, sweatpea, peace! :D

[sweetpea]

Oh go chase a car.

OR

You could talk about an issue rather than do personal attacks. My ankles are bit up and sore. Shoo!

Peace, sweatpea, peace! :D

Right back at you.

Please point out the personal attack. While you are looking keep in mind you are the one wanting to segregate yourself from half of the country because you don't consider them smart enough to knw that voting Republican is so harmful.

You personally attack vast sections of this country and then compalin about persaonl attacks becasue I point that out?

[Mr. Magoo]

No sweetpea, you are wrong. We republicans ATTACK. liberals "enlighten". Have'nt you been paying attention? We are evil, mean spirited souls !!!! We are stupid, homophobic, racist rednecks. You should go take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Do like the person you are looking at? Please wake up sweetpea, before it's too late !!!!!

[wimzkl]

This is not the real America and this is not a war on terror. Wars are openly fought. Nor can there be a war on terror since terror is no more than a word describing a heightened fear. The expression “war on terror” is a slogan, a political device meant to keep the populace in an excited fear.

Adolph Hitler used such slogans effectively: “you must harp on these slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.” Our conservative administration uses the slogan “war on terror” to maintain their control. Past administrations have used “war on drugs” and “war on crime” in the same way.

Terror as an extreme political tool is pervasive in history. The First World War was precipitated when Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand. About 30 years ago, the Baader-Meinhof Gang in Germany and the Red Brigades of Italy terrorized those nations. We had our Oklahoma City bombing and the Olympics bombing in Atlanta. There is no known effective way to combat terrorists other than the way the Italians and Germans dealt with their terrorists. They hunted them down and brought them to justice.

Hitler used an act of terrorism to justify suspension of civil liberties and fomented a hysterical hatred of Jews and communists. His rhetoric was not aimed at Germany’s enemies. It was aimed at his own people to solidify his political position. In the event of a terrorist atomic attack on an American city, is it possible that Marshall Law could be declared? Could Bush use the “war on terror” slogan to justify ending our individual liberties? Would our populace welcome it as the Germans welcomed Hitler?

Terrorism will last as long as there is prejudiced knowledge and significant inequities in the world. If you would fight a war on terror, these must be your targets and your weapons must be education and opportunity. Any traditions, religions, institutions and social classes that impede education and opportunity jeopardize the Separation of Powers and individual liberty.

Many must have a troubled feeling that we acted too quickly in Iraq based on incomplete and misleading information. Many have a further feeling that if we had expended those resources and that manpower to successfully chase down Bin Laden and his gang, we would have not sacrificed our prominence in the eyes of the world. Saddam would have continued his brutal ways, but the Iraqis probably would have incurred far fewer casualties and the area would not be so unstable. Perhaps we would not have lost so many of our own finest youth.

Most important, still, the world would know that we will not tolerate terrorism; that we will go to any lengths to punish the terrorists. We will lunch our fastest fleet, brave any storm and hunt them down. Once they know there is no safe haven, they will think more than twice about attacking us. Isn’t that really what we need to accomplish?

To Pinball Wizard "You spend and spend and spend, while our house and our lives are falling apart."
"I'm TAXED beyond belief and I have nothing to show for it."

What???? You can thank DEMOCRATS for your taxes. You know what you have to show for it? Welfare,food stamps,subsidized housing etc."

"Welfare,food stamps,subsidized housing, etc." were an attempt to deal with the significant inequities that led to the torching of several of our cities in the 1960's. That the attempts were botched does not mitigate the need. We are all in this for the ultimate public good and your name calling is pointless. Besides, the national debt indicates that the Republicans are the most liberal of the two parties.

Many voters today are cosmetic conservatives (CosCons) because they have forgotten or are unaware of key points of history. They are asking the wrong questions and coming up with the wrong answers. Politics is the main stream of history. It follows that political judgments demand historical knowledge. The conservative leaders of this nation have fabricated their political position from two big lies.

In ‘Mein Kampf,” Adolph Hitler said that plausible untruths were one of the best tools for obtaining political power. Enough repetition of a slogan would instill it as truth in common man to the point that, when confronted with incontrovertible disproof, the disproof would be doubted. Thus we have inalienable political fabrications.

The first of the two lies is that our conservative leadership wants a smaller, more efficient government. A politician’s fiscal conservatism is unsustainable over time and becomes liberal because of career motivated public spending. Campaign contribution quid pro quo inevitably produces legislation specifically benefiting the rich and powerful to the detriment of the public interest.

The second is that the great burden of taxation on our middle class is the responsibility of the liberal governments of the past. The recent increases in this burden can be laid directly to the enactment of Reagan’s “supply-side” tax reforms. Those reforms shifted the tax burden down the social scale while adding income share to the top 20% of American households concurrently lowering the share of the lower 80%. This is a dangerous concentration of wealth.

Conservatives will continue to doubt that these are lies, in spite of the strong arguments presented to the contrary.

Pinball Wizard, I suggest you go to the thread on the national debt and learn a little about the extreme liberalism of your conservative leaders. I seriously doubt if you have nothing to show for your taxes. More than likely I have paid a multiple of the taxes you have paid and I have a lot to show for it. But, more important, we have liberty and there is nothing more important. I have seen nothing in your arguments to indicate that you are a true conservative.