[haus]

Gotta couple of questions for the vegans/vegetarians around here.

I go vegetarian a couple of times a year for about 3 months apiece and am about to start up another cycle (day 10 of a 14-day fast/detox). I usually avoid most processed/cooked foods. A typical day would be like:


breakfast: oatmeal, a couple of oranges, fruit smoothie
lunch: a couple of veggie tortillas with mustard, banannas
dinner: steamed veggies with pasta/rice


This time, I'm thinking about adding some fried foods (asian stir-fries, breakfast "skillets", falafels) and meat/cheese substitutes. This is obviously not as healthy, but I think it'll help me with Whopper-with-cheese cravings and extend my endurance past 3 months.

I don't know squat about the following food categories:


meat/cheese/egg substitutes,
vegetable oils for frying,
mayonaise substitutes, lo-fat salad dressings (yellow mustard gets pretty monotonous!)


The last time I had a veggie-burger (which was probably many years ago) it tasted like a handful of grass and twigs. Last time I had vegan cheese, it tasted like a slice of corn oil. I'm guessing there's been a lot of advances since then. What brands/types do you like?

One other thing: are there any chain restaurants with all-you-can-eat salad bars any more? They used to be pretty prevalent (i.e. Wendy's), but I can't remember seeing one in years.

[FDRfollower]

The last time I had a veggie-burger (which was probably many years ago) it tasted like a handful of grass and twigs.

:spam: mmmm!:laughing: And you pay so much more for grass and twigs! I can't believe the prices I saw for them.

Good supermarkets usually have a pretty decent salad bar.

There's no all-you-eat buffet type rest. up there in Wis?

[haus]

I think there have been great strides since I last tried a veggie burger. There's this new (?) stuff called TVP for Textured Vegetable Protein that I've never encountered. From the reviews I can find on the web, it seems like pretty good stuff. As for price -- if $5 can thwart the cold-sweats of Whopper-craving, it's $5 well spent.

As for the disappearance of salad-bars, I can't tell whether it's a function of history or geography. Probably both. I remember in the '80's, you could go to the least health-conscious corners of the nation (i.e. rural Indiana) and find one in every Burger King, Wendy's, in short in every little dump. In the '90's I was mostly in hip, liberal metropoli where every deli would have a yuppie-covered salad bar. Now I'm in a hip, liberal mini-metropolis and as far as I can tell there's no such beast. (Although there's an indian buffet i'm gonna put out of business next week. :))

[-V-]

Haus, I'm an expert on the meat and cheese substitutes. I'm a fanatic about the morality of meat but I'm not, for lack of a better term, a "health food nut". The meat substitutes I buy are inexpensive, can be microwaved in a minute, and, in my opinion, are as good as the real thing. I don't know how they do it but as long as no animals are abused, I'm not complaining. It is highly processed, but I figure it's still healthier than animal flesh.

Between brands, there is a big difference in the taste. To appease the carnivoure in you try a Morningstar Farms burger - Griller's Prime with a slice of Galazy Nutritional Foods Veggie Slices - American Flavor cheese substitute. I dare anyone to tell the difference between that and cow between two hamburger buns.

Morningstar also makes amazing chicken nugget substitutes as well as sausage, even bacon.

For frying (and a butter substitute), the #1 choice for vegans is Earth Balance, sold in a margarine container.

For a turkey sandwiche delight try "Deli Slices ToFurkey, hickory smoked" with any of the Mayo substitutes.

I look forward to your reviews...

[-V-]

also, check to see if your Burger King sells a veggie burger. It may not be on the menu. The pattie itself is not the best, but when it's dressed like their regular burger it is quite satisfying.

[Jane of Arc]

Just like -V- ... I too am a vegetarian. I have been one for a long time for the same reasons as -V-. I respect animals and see no need or justification to end their lives and to devour them for my pleasure. There's plenty of other, more healthy things to eat.

TVP has been around a long time. Before the mass marketing of soy burgers, soy chick patties, soy sausages, et al ... people like me used TVP and tofu to create all the copies of American meat-based cuisine. I'm a damn good vegetarian cook, if I don't say so myself. :D If you need any help let me know.

Important: make sure to purchase GMO-(genetically modified organism) free products, as well as organic ingredients.

[haus]

Thanks folks. Google hasn't been much help trying to feel my around these topics.

I looked through Morningstar Farm's site and it has lots of good info. Consumer reviews (bizarrely hard to find) are pretty positive.

Has anybody tried the "Nu Tofu" cheese substitutes? Basically I'm looking for 2 things: cheese to put on a sandwich and cheese to melt on a potato or a pizza or whatever. Although I'm pretty ignorant on the subject, it seems like most brands are good for one but not the other. I'm not a finicky eater, but I think, beside malaysian fish-ball breakfast soup, the only food I've ever spit out and cursed at was a vegan cheese substitute 10+ years ago.

The other question I can't get a handle on is cooking oils. I love, love, love a lunch of falafel and hummus. And stir fries. But every cooking oil I find has 150% of the RDA for fat. It seems there has to be a (possibly obvious) workaround here, but I'm having a lot of trouble putting my finger on it.

Thanks again for all the good info.

[-V-]

The "Veggie Slices" American cheese I mentioned melts just right on a potato or burger but I can't recommend any on a cold sandwich. For pizza, Morningstar and others sell bags of shredded cheese substitutes.

When you refer to "textured veggetable protein, Jane, how is it sold/packaged? I'm definitely less of a cook than you or Haus (I'm lazy), so maybe you could tell me the simplest meal I could prepare with TVP and tofu.

I've got some tofu in the frig now that I will make another attempt at frying up the way you would get it at a Chinese restaurant but it never comes out right. I would like it browned and crisp but I don't want to use a lot of oil. What kind of seasoning can I use?

[Michael DeM]

Hi there Haus. It's cool that you're experimenting with veggie products. I can tell you a little about the different meat substitutes out there, but I don't know too much about egg and dairy substitutes since I'm not a vegan (not yet at least).

The major brands that I've been getting are Gardenburger (http://gardenburger.com), Morningstar, and Boca. I think Boca's veggie burgers are the best tasting. Those could probably take care of any meat cravings you are having. Morninstar burgers are pretty good and Gardenburger's aren't bad either. There are many variations of the veggie burger, so you might want to try different burgers from the same brand and see which one you like.

When it comes to chicken replacements, I believe Morningstar makes the best chicken substitute. Boca makes a good veggie chicken as well.

For hot dogs Morningstar once again tops the list for me. One thing you should know about the Morninstar veggie dogs is that they are all stuck together in the packages they come in. Getting them apart can be a hassle but it's well worth it. Boca also makes some good veggie dogs along with some delicious veggie sausages (you seriously can't taste the difference).


Out of all the veggie products that I've tried I think my favorite is Gardenburger's BBQ Riblets. It's very tasty and it doesn't have any traces of animal products for those of you who are vegan.

Good luck everbody.

[-V-]

I get the veggie dogs every once in a while but they are the least realistic of the meat substitutes and I wouldn't recommend them to newbies. The bbq riblets, however, are indeed a treat but not as reasonably priced as the burgers which come 4 to a box over here for under $4.

The best milk substitute is far and away Rice Dream in my opinion. None of the soy milks appeal to me and I'm already eating enough soy products as it is.

[haus]

...I've got some tofu in the frig now that I will make another attempt at frying up the way you would get it at a Chinese restaurant but it never comes out right. I would like it browned and crisp but I don't want to use a lot of oil. What kind of seasoning can I use?

I'm really interested to see if Jane's got a slam-dunk on this.

I spent about a year doing tofu experiements, but didn't have any books or experts to consult about it. If you slice the tofu really thin (1/8"-1/4"), put some oil in a pan, turn up the heat as far as it can go without making the oil smoke, and cook for-freaking-ever you'll end up with a pleasing, browned jerky-like substance.

I liked the result, but it took at least 45 minutes to do. This post (http://www.vegsource.com/talk/recipes/messages/53803.html) suggests pressing out the water and dusting in flour, which make sense to me.

As far as marinades go, I've never had a result I liked. You'd think if you soak a block of tofu in A-1 sauce overnight, it'd end up pretty tangy. No dice. I've tried a number of things, using stronger and stronger spices. When I did an overnight marinade in Sriracha pepper sauce (http://www.huyfong.com/no_frames/sriracha.htm) and jalepeno juice it turned the tofu into wet dust and I gave up. :)

[-V-]

I hear ya haus. I was able to get the tofu browned and chewy once with a mix of soy sauce and barbacue sauce but it was years ago and I have not been able to duplicate it since.

You know, Jane keeps boasting of her cooking prowess yet she passes on our simple veggy question to pontificate on some unsolvable political issue in another thread while leaving us hanging with square lumps of white, tastless bean curd, and empty bellys. :(

[haus]

I spent some time reading up on cooking oils and think I've figured some stuff out. I don't claim to be an expert, so if something in this post looks crazy, lemme know.

First off, for small jobs, PAM looks like a winner. No fat, no cholesterol, not exactly organic but nothing on the ingredients list looks too heinous.

For larger jobs, Canola Oil looks like the best all-around choice. Among all oils you can fry with, Canola has the highest ratios of both monounsaturated fat to saturated fat (62:6) and polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat (32:6).

Saturated fat is the "bad" kind that causes problems like high blood pressure, hardening of the arteries, high cholesterol and so forth.

The "good fats" are the unsaturated ones. Here are some benefits of unsaturated fats:


transports fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K throughout the body.
cushions and protects internal organs.
Essential fatty acids (EFAs), benefit your heart, metabolism and immune system.
Some EFAs are used by the body for structural, hormonal and electrical functions rather than for energy. These EFAs increase metabolic rate and increase fat burn off resulting in loss of weight.


Both kinds decrease cholesterol levels and polyunsaturated does it quicker. Monounsaturated has the special property of raising "good cholesterol" (HDL).

If you're interested, there's a lot of information on and around the WikiPedia Cooking Oil Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil).

[-V-]

Your expose of the global oil industry is informative, haus, but it is not helping solve the hunger crisis I am experiencing here at home. Where's Jane of Arc when you need her?

(kicking it up a notch, as Emerill would say)

For God's sake women, we are just two humble, wifeless men trying to scrape up a simple, politically correct meal so that we may continue to have the strength to fight injustice and tyranny in the world. All we are asking for monicum of help in unraveling the mysteries of tofu in the kitchen -- it's not like we're asking you to come up with a Middle East peace plan or solve the Davinci Code. Can you help? Can anyone help!!! We're starving over here... :binkybaby:

[-V-]

ok, i've just had a little granola cereal with rice milk and i'm settling down now.

But tonight I still have my sights on a little deep fried tofu in 15 minutes or less.

[-V-]

Day 3 and still no word from JofA.

Vision blurring.

I havent eaten for hours.
I havent eaten for hours.

Perhaps a case of double vision as well.

The package of extra firm tofu in my refrigerator hovering precariously near its experation date.

And i still have no idea how to cook it.

i am beginning to fear for the very existance of pol itself if i cant go on

losing punctuation now

must find a way
must (cough) kijd aj wyyyyy...

[-V-]

fde 4
kdjf deidkkd didmnds
didc dik
kldjiendi iuie

scrwje janr

[haus]

I think if we want to get sneaky and remote-activate her maternal-instinct subroutine, we're gonna have to dress up as puppies and break stuff. :)

[haus]

Hey -V- here's a quickie: I'm guessin' you enjoy the occasional pizza. I checked out Bobollis and they all seem to have cheese. Then I went to Whole Foods and didn't find any Bobolli-like offerings. Is there a good alternative?

[-V-]

Is there a good alternative?

I'm not aware of any good, reasonably priced vegan pizza. Being Italian, pizza is one food item I can't replace.

[FDRfollower]

Speaking of vegetables...

Did you see George Bush?


(couldn't resist)

[haus]

Ok, so I just broke my fast yesterday and worked my way up to making a couple of Vegan Cheeseburgers. Here's my take:

The Good
The patties (I used Gardenburger Flame Broiled) are much better than they were 10 years ago. Unless you concentrate on it, you can't tell the difference.

The Bad
I really wanted this to be a positive experience, so I went all out dressing the burgers. A little touch of ketchup, mustard, and Fat Free 1000 Island/Miracle Whip, various veggies, and pickles. Out of curiosity, I did some number crunching and found this little meal was 1000 calories and 2 times the RDA of salt. (Adding the quart of Spicy V8 I chugged brought my sodium up to 4.5X the RDA).

I think the moral of the story is this: limit it to one burger per day at most, use fewer condiments, and watch your salt on burger days.

The Ugly
I tried the Galaxy Vegan American Cheese Slices. As I mowed my way through the first burger, things were going great. Then a big chunk of cheese must have touched the wrong taste-buds and I got pretty nauseous. Maybe it's an acquired taste, maybe it's a personal thing, maybe I didn't melt it enough -- I dunno. But I liked the second burger, without the cheese, much more.

Overall
I'm pretty happy with the results. The meal was a billion times healthier than a Big Mac Extra Value Meal and definately able to cure a craving.

[-V-]

You can kick it up a notch by going from Gardenburger to Morningstar Grillers Prime. I don't care much for Gardenburger's products in general.

Also, the Galaxy Vegan cheese is apparently different from the Galaxy cheese version I buy which does have some dairy in the ingrediants.

[Jane of Arc]

SORRY ... SORRY ... SORRY!!! I was too busy pontificating!!!! Never thought to check back on the Vegetarian Cooking Boys! Okay ... I'm here! I scanned most of the thread and will respond to what I saw first.

TVP (textured vegetable protein)

You find TVP in health food stores or in the health food section of your supermarket. It is packaged in bags. It's dry, gritty stuff ... pretty tasteless. I buy organic from Wild Oats in bulk.

TVP first needs hydration. I usually add plain water, but you can use vegetable broth, mushroom broth, vegetable stock and a variety of other liquids for flavor. I use TVP for a kick ass meat(free)loaf, for meat(free)balls and burgers, stuffed peppers ... all the things you would use hamburger for. Let me know if you want recipes for any of these and I will oblige. :sunny: I'll check back everyday and I'll never leave you poor, poor babies starving without vegetarian recipes again!

[-V-]

:jumpjoy:

[haus]

So the goal was to come up with a vegan breakfast that was tasty and filling that took the same kind of effort to create and consume as two Hot-Pockets. A secondary consideration was to make it so nutritious that I get a little extra leeway with lunch and dinner. Here's where I'm at so far:

The Liberal Avenger, v1.0

2 bananas, peeled
2 oranges, peeled
30 red seedless grapes
1 packet, NutriBiotic Vegan Rice Protein
2 oz (4 large spoonfuls) fresh shredded broccoli
optional fruits/berries to tweak taste
a couple of ounces of water


Preparation: Shove everything into a blender and hit liquefy. I learned a couple of important things about blenders during this experiment. 1) Hit the "crush ice" button if the blades don't move, and 2) if the blades move and the fruit doesn't, add water.

Nutrition (RDA for 2000 calorie diet)


Calories 561, 28%
Saturated fat 1.15g, (11% of my limit)
Monounsaturated fat .5 g, (2% of my limit)
Polyunsaturated fat .5 g (2% of my limit)
Cholesterol 0%
Sodium 3%
Potassium 49%
Carbohydrates 42%
Fiber 66%
Vitamin A 126%
Vitamin C 375%
Vitamin K 347%
Protein 32%
Calcium 19%
Iron 19%


I think my next experiment will be to tweak up the spinach content. I don't really like spinach by itself, but it's almost undetectable in this mix.

Anybody experiment with this kind of thing before?

[-V-]

broccoli and spinach for breakfast -- in a blender? Now you're really pushing it!

What you really need is a juicer. I have a Juiceman Juicer which really gives your system the right fuel to work with. I would love to use it twice a day if someone else would go to the store, pick out the fruits and veggies, clean them, juice them, and clean the machine for me.

If I feel a cold coming on I juice a blend of apple, carrots, celery, tomato, green lettuce, onion, garlic, radish, and ginger root. The key is the last 4 which will knock your socks off. It is indeed strong tasting but after a few times I actually crave the taste of it. The body knows what it wants.

[haus]

woops -- brocolli was s'posed to be spinach. and you really don't notice it (until you brush your teeth) :)

[Jane of Arc]

:sunny: Just checking in ... wanted to see how the Bouncin' Brocolli Boys are doing with their vegetarian pursuits. No questions? Good.

Haus ~ I'll be starting the same kind of breakfast after New Years. You're pretty much describing "Fit For Life." A great way to detox. I need some detoxing right about now.

I read some more of this thread today and haus you wanted to know about how to make tofu like you get in Chinese restaurants? That requires a wok and some deep frying. Here's how you do it:


Fried Tofu

Drain the tofu (can use firm or silky - I like firm better)

Cut the tofu into squares of whatever size you desire and roll it in cornstarch or flour

Heat the oil in the wok to between 350 - 375 degrees - add enough oil to cover the size of tofu you're cooking - use peanut, corn or canola oil and do not use sesame or olive oil

Place just a few pieces of tofu in the oil at a time, crowding is bad

When golden remove with a slatted spoon and I put the fried tofu on a paper towel to drain off the excess fat




Hope that helps :sunny:

Jane

[Jane of Arc]

So where's the feedback, eh? Did you try the recipes? Huh? Huh?

[-V-]

I got to that slab of tofu last night. Since one of my requirements is that it can be cooked in the time it takes for an NBA half time to be over, I left out the flour from the equation. I was hesitant to use a lot of oil but I had Canola so I went for it. To kick it up a notch I added soy sauce, barbacue sauce, and the spice mix from a 17 cent bag of oriental flavor Ramen noodle soup.

In ten minutes it was nicely browned and firm, I poured it over the noodles, and I was back to the game.

I'll be putting that meal in my game plan once a week.

[Jane of Arc]

Very cool -V-! Sounds delicious. I was going to add earlier that if you want it like a Chinese restaurant ... you don't add condiment ... but just deep fry in oil in a wok ... and get this ... they often deep fry the tofu cubes TWICE to make it super crispy. That's some serious fat.

Did you fry it first and then add all the condiments? Or did you fry it with the condiments?

[-V-]

I mixed the condiments and the oil together first. I need to get a wok. A pound of tofu is a squeeze in a frying pan.

[Jane of Arc]

With all this talk about tofu ... I'm getting into it! I went out and bought myself some tofu and I'm going to try some new recipes that call for broiling. Much less fat is used. Because I've been busy I've been eating a lot of pre-cooked organic food, but there's nothing like the real thing.

I have a gazillion vegetarian cookbooks I look through ... then I take the best ideas and create. I've always baked tofu, but now I'm going to try broiling it in a marinade. I'll let you know if it's any good.

Note: One thing I didn't mention is that it's important to drain tofu for at least 1/2 hour. Longer is better. It's important to get the water out so that the tofu can take on flavors and brown better. If you don't do this already and need help, let me know.

[haus]

Well, I'm almost to 70 days (almost) completely vegan, and I think my lack of bewildered posts here is a testament to how easy it is. I have racked up a bunch of observations for those that are interested:


i don't keep salt in the house, but salt's the only problem i'm facing nutritionally. I probably go over the 2400 mg every day. The good news is that's down from something like 9000 mg every day before I made the switch.
it's easy to get every nutrient you need except Vitamin D, B-12, Calcium, and maybe Iron
fortified O.J. will give you plenty of Vitamin D and Calcium. I get my B-12 and a ton of Calcium and Iron from Total Raisin Bran (which is a little non-vegan)
for most vitamins and minerals, protein, and fiber, I'm getting 4 or 5 times the RDA
I'm getting about 0 grams of saturated fat and cholesterol a day
tofurkey and veggie burgers are more than enough to offset any meat cravings. tofurkey's odd -- i like it, it tastes like something, i'm just not sure it tastes like turkey...
At risk of incurring sailor jokes, I'm developing a deep relationship with spinach. A 10oz packet of chopped frozen spinach costs 85 cents and is just insanely good for you
I was really excited to find out that -V- was absolutely right about the Galaxy cheese products. Just stay away from the ones that say "Vegan" on them -- they are truly heinous.
Most meatless canned chillis are vegan, and a number of standard spaghetti sauces are too. These are cornerstones of my cooking. The trick is to look for the ones that are lower in salt.
A company called "Deli-catessen" makes (as far as I can tell) vegan pizza crusts (http://www.venuswafers.com/crackers.html). Now and then, they really hit the spot.
I use potatoes to fill in gaps. For super-quick stuff, hot water and dehydrated flakes do the job. Flakes are also useful in turning soups into stews. If you have 7 minutes, you can poke, nuke, quarter, and smash with a fork.
I've only felt the inclination to fry stuff maybe three times so far. I still think Canola is the best choice among vegetable oils...
it is possible to be a fat vegetarian -- William Shatner's one. as for me, I've dropped 20 of the 30 pounds I gained during the whole "runrussrun" deal.


Here's something I've been making a lot lately:

World's Second Easiest Salad

Thaw a 10oz pack of frozen, raw, chopped spinach. Spoon out about a third into a bowl. Add two tablespoons of soy sauce and slosh it around for maybe 10 seconds. Pour off any excess soy sauce. Add a half of a chopped onion and a half of a chopped tomato. Eat. (The bad news is this: 1 tablespoon of Soy Sauce is about 1/3 of your RDA of sodium.)

[Jane of Arc]

Wow haus, I'm impressed! I have a very hard time being a strick vegan.

I seem to feel better if I eat eggs. Big soure of Omega 3 for me and I make sure I only eat organic, vegetarian-fed chicken eggs.

I'd like to be able to drop the dairy though. But's it hard for me ... a little bit of parmesan cheese here ... a little dab of butter in cooking there. Even the author of Fit for Life, Harvey Diamond (the only survivor of Agent Orange, he maintains) uses dairy products sparingly.

One important thing: I'm sure you know this ... buy GMO-free soy products. A lot of American grown soy is from these Frankenstein seeds.

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years, which is most of my adult life. Everyday I go to a hardcore aerobic and weights workout course. It's run by ex-military and all they do is shout at me. :o I've been doing it for a couple of months and have 4 months to go until I become a seriously lean, mean fighting machine. Who knew I could do push-ups? Here's the interesting thing ... the people in the group who are vegetarians are the most fit and the most aggressively competitive!?*@! They also seem to have the most fun. Wonder why?

[-V-]

well shiver me timbers and blow me down, popeye. I'm glad to hear your commitment to spinach and oliveoil are working out for you (you asked for it).

I wouldn't have salt in my house at all, except to have it available for guests. I don't have a desire for it anymore. I do like chopped spinach and now that you reminded me I'll remember to pick some up. I'm not sold on your soy sauce salad and will have to think of other ways to use it.

[-V-]

don't forget to make sure those eggs are "free range" too Janey.

[haus]

well shiver me timbers and blow me down, popeye. I'm glad to hear your commitment to spinach and oliveoil are working out for you (you asked for it).

It's funny I still don't have any affection for sweetpea. :lol:

re: spinach. In the salad it reminds me of a california roll. I guess spinach+soy sauce brings to mind seaweed for me. But i add it to all sorts of stuff, from the morning smoothie to spaghetti sauce, chilli, and on top of pizza.

re: energy to work out. No kidding! I've deleted this paragraph three times, cuz it looks like the dustjacket to a bad self-help book. But the change I've noticed is amazing.

[Jane of Arc]

mighty toughtfull of ya -V- ... dah ah din'T no ah s'pose to by freE range egs! HoolY crap balls. Ah beter go chas me down sum chickuns ah live in tennesee ya' no thar evywhere! :jumpjoy: = (Jane chasing chickens) cum here ya' lil bastids hol stil so ahs can grab ya!

[haus]

I've been putting this experiment off for a while, and in retrospect I wish I hadn't. Without further adieu:

Haus' Ghetto Vegan Curry

minute rice, 1 cup
water, 1 cup
2 coffee-spoons of hot yellow or red curry powder
a handful of frozen peas
a handful of frozen corn
1/4 of an onion
1/2 a tomato
a few spoons of thawed frozen spinach
squirt of ketchup (optional)
ground black pepper (optional)


Combine rice and water in a big microwave-safe bowl. Stir in curry and pepper if desired. The pepper makes it more, um, well your nose is more likely to run.

Nuke the rice for 5 minutes. Chop the onion and tomato. When the rice is done, stir in the veggies and let the mixture stand for a couple of minutes. This kind of lightly steam-cooks the veggies.

I took a couple of bites and had a strong feeling that something important was missing. I think this is because the veggies are more or less raw, they kind of suck the spiciness out of the dish. But, I squirted in some ketchup and stirred again. It did the trick.

(p.s. A tablespoon is the regular-sized one like you see on a table, right? Like, smaller than a soup spoon? I made a grave error with teaspoons and tablespoons long ago, and I'm still gun-shy.)

[NoJokesInClass]

I'm a lifelong vegetarian and nutrition consultant and it's making me really upset to read this thread. The average level of nutrition knowledge is not so good, and coupled with vegetarianism this sends a bad message.

People: vegetarian diets should consist mainly of vegetables. Lots of locally grown organic ones of all colors, especially green. Eat the rainbow! Also - a complete protein at every meal! If you are doing no animal products this means: Soy (please use tempeh, avoid soy milk, cheese, yogurt, etc., research why yourself!), beans+whole grains (rotate the kinds of beans and grains), or beans + nuts (again, variety will ensure your amino acid intake is correct). Also eat plenty of sea vegetables, nutritional yeast, and again: variety is the key to a successful vegetarian diet.

[FDRfollower]

Hiya NoJokes. Here's your chance to help the veggie barbarians, if you want to. :laughing:

Welcome to POL.

[Jane of Arc]

Big welcome NoJokesInClass!

I have been a vegetarian for most of my adult life. About 18 years. And I should add I've been very healthy. But, I would absolutely love your input on this topic seeing that you're a nutrition consultant. I wish you would be more specific about upset you in this thread.

I eat tons of colorful vegetables everyday. Salads galore! I eat as much organic as possible. I only eat whole grains, brown rice and organic cereal. For protein I eat soy products (mostly GMO free), organic eggs, beans, seeds & nuts ... but I also eat dairy products: organic lowfat milk, organic butter & organic eggs ... but I buy regular cheddar cheese, Italian parmesan, ricotta, cottage cheese.

I feel I eat pretty well ... but am I a crazed VEGGIE BARBARIAN???? :jumpjoy:

[haus]

Here's to Jane, La Dona Teflona of unflappability:

You are Mighty! (http://jane.youaremighty.com/)

[-V-]

to Jane, the Unflappable
:notworthy:

[Jane of Arc]

You're a true pisser, haus. I mean ... La Dona Teflona! You funny man! :sunny: Probably a very good person to go bar-hopping and get absolutely sloshed with. Ooops! Is this the vegetarian thread? My bad. :o


Thanks -V- ... I picture Molly Brown in Titanic? :eek:

[Jane of Arc]

Hausy Wausy ...

How did you do the 'You are Mighty' thingie? I can't figure it out. (as usual.) :confused:

Thanks

[haus]

You are Mighty, but I am a suuupah-geeeniuus. :)

To customize one, go here (http://www.jobsite.co.uk/youaremighty/index2.html). Make sure to test a name before you email a url: it doesn't like spaces and apostrophes and stuff...

And 1 other thing: I have it on good authority that beer's not meat. (Actually it's an old Joey gag from "Friends.")

[FDRfollower]

You are Mighty, but I am a suuupah-geeeniuus. :)

To customize one, go here (http://www.jobsite.co.uk/youaremighty/index2.html). Make sure to test a name before you email a url: it doesn't like spaces and apostrophes and stuff...


Cool animation. Too bad you can't understand what they are singing. Some parts sounded like they were singing about ??meatloaf?? :scratch:

:D

[haus]

Cool animation. Too bad you can't understand what they are singing. Some parts sounded like they were singing about ??meatloaf??

I busted out my copy of "Aramaic for Dummies" and roughly translated the lyrics as: "Watch out! That little Damian(:twisted:) twerp's gonna cut the cables on your elevator." Though "elevator" is something of a leap, the literal translation is "sky box ground bouncy-bouncy..."

[NeoCon Newbie]

For me its spinich leafs and some cut up baby carrots. Dont forget the blue cheese dressing fat free of corse and dont forget the celeray with ranch dressing.Be sure to drink plenty of water

[Michael DeM]

Thanks for the input, Newbie. Salads do make a nice addition to just about any meal. Eat healthy dude.:thumbup:


I'm a lifelong vegetarian and nutrition consultant and it's making me really upset to read this thread. The average level of nutrition knowledge is not so good, and coupled with vegetarianism this sends a bad message.

People: vegetarian diets should consist mainly of vegetables. Lots of locally grown organic ones of all colors, especially green. Eat the rainbow! Also - a complete protein at every meal! If you are doing no animal products this means: Soy (please use tempeh, avoid soy milk, cheese, yogurt, etc., research why yourself!), beans+whole grains (rotate the kinds of beans and grains), or beans + nuts (again, variety will ensure your amino acid intake is correct). Also eat plenty of sea vegetables, nutritional yeast, and again: variety is the key to a successful vegetarian diet.

Variety is great. I get my fair share of a lot of different stuff (vegetables, fruits, an assortment of beans, brown rice). I'll admit that I probably eat more veggie burgers and packaged foods than what's good for me, but I figure it's a lot healthier than the typical nonvegetarian diet.

[-V-]

I'm a lifelong vegetarian and nutrition consultant and it's making me really upset to read this thread. The average level of nutrition knowledge is not so good, and coupled with vegetarianism this sends a bad message.

People: vegetarian diets should consist mainly of vegetables. Lots of locally grown organic ones of all colors, especially green. Eat the rainbow! Also - a complete protein at every meal! If you are doing no animal products this means: Soy (please use tempeh, avoid soy milk, cheese, yogurt, etc., research why yourself!), beans+whole grains (rotate the kinds of beans and grains), or beans + nuts (again, variety will ensure your amino acid intake is correct). Also eat plenty of sea vegetables, nutritional yeast, and again: variety is the key to a successful vegetarian diet.

Variety is great. I get my fair share of a lot of different stuff (vegetables, fruits, an assortment of beans, brown rice). I'll admit that I probably eat more veggie burgers and packaged foods than what's good for me, but I figure it's a lot healthier than the typical nonvegetarian diet.

I'm with you MDeM. The nutritionist is correct, of course, however I believe it is misleading to make it sound like being a vegetarian needs to be complicated and is something to be cautious about. Any diet could use the guidance of a nutritionalist, but overall, I believe you are already on a path to better health by merely NOT eating animal products.

I have been vegetarian (mostly vegan) for 15 years, the only management I apply to what I eat is that it is not made from abused animals, and it has been the healthiest period of my life.

With all the things a human being can put in their mouth to sustain their life It may be the biggest lie of all in American culture that a meal isn't a meal unless it contains part of a cow, chicken, or pig.

To me their is an immediate reward for simply NOT paying someone else to abuse a cow, chicken, or pig. Then there is the secondary reward of that cow, chicken, or pig not rotting and decaying in my colon for 2 to 3 times longer than other foods.

Yes, I could increase the health benefits by managing the caloric and nutritional aspects of my vegetarian diet but no one should underestimate the physical and spiritual rewards of maintaining a clear consciounce and as well as a clean colon.

[JamesP]

Good marketing slogan for vegeterianism:

"For a clear conscience as well as a clean colon......"

[-V-]

Good marketing slogan for vegeterianism:

"For a clear conscience as well as a clean colon......"

Here's another good one:

"Save the cows, save the WORLD!"

If you click the John Edwards - Bill Maher combination on the Yahoo online debate http://debates.news.yahoo.com/ you'll hear Maher tell Edwards that a recent U.N. study found that cutting down trees to make grazing land for cattle and methane emmisions from cattle generated more greenhouse gas emmisions than all the cars and planes in the world

[-V-]

"Save the cows, save the WORLD!" From my 1992 research paper:
Indications are that today's factory farming and our consumption of animal products is affecting world hunger, our forests and topsoil, our water supply, the ozone layer, and our economy.

"Hunger is really a social disease caused by the unjust, inefficient and wasteful control of food", declares John Robbins. "The livestock population of the United States today consumes enough grain and soybeans to feed over five times the entire human population of the country. We feed these animals over 80% of the corn we grow, and over 95% of the oats".

Robbins goes on to say that over half of the country's harvest land is used to grow crops for animals and that for every 16 pounds of grain and soybeans we feed cattle, we get back only one pound as beef and 15 pounds as manure. In addition we waste 90% of its protein, 96% of its calories, 100% of its fiber, and 100% of its carbohydrates. Lester Brown of the Overseas Development Council estimates that if Americans were to reduce their meat consumption by only 10%, "it would free enough grain to feed every one of the 60 million human beings who will starve to death on the planet this year". At the height of the Ethiopia famine in 1984, millions of dollars in food crops were being imported out of Ethiopia to be eaten by animals in our factory farms (Gold).

Our topsoil and forests also pay the price. Between 1960 and 1985 40% of all Central American rainforests were destroyed to create pasture for beef cattle (Living) it has been calculated (Gold) that each hamburger we eat costs us 55 square feet of rainforest to produce. Economists David Fields and Robin Hur estimate that for every person who switches to a pure vegetarian diet, an acre of trees is spared every year. Likewise, John Robbins estimates that 200 million acres of American land could be returned to forest if we were to stop raising food to feed livestock, and instead raise food directly for people.

Overgrazing and non-sustainable methods of growing feed also result in the ruination of the topsoil that is needed to grow all crops. The U.S. Soil Conservation Service reports that 85% of our annual topsoil loss is directly associated with livestock raising (Robbins). A total of 1/3 of the countries topsoil has already been lost, stresses Marcus Halevi in a Humane Society "Close-Up Report".

Our water supply is also sacrificed. Halevi points to statistics that over half of our country's water use is directed to raising livestock. Another statistic states that to produce a single pound of meat takes an average of 2,500 gallons of water (Living). Or, as Newsweek magazine puts it, "The water that goes into a 1,000 pound steer would float a destroyer" (Robbins). Meanwhile, says Robbins, "The excrement from America's animals (250,000 pounds a second) often ends up back in our rivers streams and lakes. This amounts to twenty times as much organic waste water pollution as the human population of the U.S. and 3 times as much as the rest of the nation's industries combined. Additionally, Marcus Helevi explains how the methane expelled by billions of farm animals and their excrement, along with the related de-forestation, greatly contribute to the destruction of the ozone layer which protects us from ultraviolet radiation.

Though consumers may have assumed that modern farming methods saves them money at the grocery store it has additional hidden costs. The exorbitant consumption of water by the agricultural industry is subsidized by state and federal government (Robbins). Agricultural engineers at Ohio State University found that even the least efficient plant production is nearly ten times as efficient as any animal breeding operation. A feature article in Scientific America proclaimed, "The trends in meat consumption and energy consumption are on a collision course". Robbins further observes that, "If we kicked the meat habit there would be no need for nuclear power plants, our electric bills would be far lower, and our dependence on foreign oil would be greatly reduced. His message is reinforced by economists Fields and Hurr who predict increases in personal savings resulting from reduced spending on alternate foods, prescription drugs, medical care and insurance. They claim, "Savings on health care alone could be expected to reach 200 billion within 5 years" (Robbins).

On November 20, of this year more than 1,500 scientists issued a four page "Warning to Humanity" to control activities such as "deforestation and bad farming practices" that will within the next few decades lead to irreversible "social, economic, and environmental collapse." (Assoc. Press) With only one planet, and so many people, breeding animals is and always will be a painfully inefficient and potentially destructive method of food production. Even if only a fraction of the presented research and statistics are correct, our course would still be clear. The big question then, is why does the massive production and consumption of animal products continue? The answer lies in free enterprise and old habits.

While intensive factory farming does not contribute to a better economy, it does create massive profits for powerful meat, dairy, and pharmaceutical corporations. It is estimated that 40 cents of every American food dollar is spent on beef and 435 million dollars a year is spent on antibiotics for livestock (Bender).

We must remember that besides affecting our own health (which is of course, our right), our actions profoundly affect the lives of countless animals, every other human on earth, and the earth itself (which is, of course, a wrong). In our lifetime, our choice of diet will remain in each individuals hands. In the end it comes down to a choice between the preservation of life and our preference in meals.

[-V-]

VEGETARIANISM - For a clear conscience and a clean colon!

-V- 1992 The U.S. Surgeon General's Office informs us that the average American eats twice as much protein as he or she needs and that most nutritional requirements (including protein, calcium and iron) can be met by a plant-based diet. In 1991, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine proposed eliminating meat and dairy products from the Basic Four food groups so that they would now contain grains, vegetable, legumes, and fruits (Myers). Fortunately, according to the Farm Animal Reform Group, that still leaves about 350,000 varieties of food to choose from (Nichols). Besides reducing the risk of heart attack by 90% (Living), studies indicate that the vegetarian would also be less susceptible to cervical, uterus, ovarian, and lung cancer; diabetes, hypoglycemia, multiple sclerosis, ulcers, constipation, arthritis, kidneystones, gallstones, hypertension, anemia, asthma, and of course - obesity (Robbins).